*
*
*
*
RE: Cholov Stam-Cholov Akum is actually חלב טריף Per Rav Eliyashev Shlita and Rav Shmuel Wosner Shlita.
The European Hashgochas mistakenly believe that they don't have the problem because the Veterinarians say "in Europe we don't have those problems". The cold facts are that europe has the problem just as much as the USA.
We and others spoke to the European vets & vet. associations re the procedures. The proclaimed that an incidence of 1-2% for each type of procedure is considered "we don't have the problem". There are 2-3 common procedures that will render a cow a treifah, so we have 4-6% of procedures in europe that make the cow a treifah. Therefore their milk ic cholv treifah. We understand that not all of the European Cholov Yisroel hashgochas remove the procedured cows, so even their cholov yisroel is cholov treif. This affects their chocolate bars as well.
From the step by step procedure manual for DA's.
We and others spoke to the European vets & vet. associations re the procedures. The proclaimed that an incidence of 1-2% for each type of procedure is considered "we don't have the problem". There are 2-3 common procedures that will render a cow a treifah, so we have 4-6% of procedures in europe that make the cow a treifah. Therefore their milk ic cholv treifah. We understand that not all of the European Cholov Yisroel hashgochas remove the procedured cows, so even their cholov yisroel is cholov treif. This affects their chocolate bars as well.
From the step by step procedure manual for DA's.
Perforate the abdominal wall and the abomasum with a swift downward push of the trocar.
Use the push rod to move the toggle COMPLETELY through the length of the needle so that it will turn perpendicular to the long axis of the needle once in the abomasal lumen.
9. Before removing the trocar needle from the second suture site, place pressure on the external abdominal wall to force as much free gas from the abomasum as possible. This will reduce the tension on the sutures and help to reduce the chance of tearing the abomasal wall or leaking abomasal contents into the peritoneal cavity.
* * * * * * *
There are numerous veterinarian procedures that make a milking cow a "Treife". The procedures include what is commonly known as "DA"'s, "C" section, Bloating etc. All of the Major Poiskim in the USA & Eretz Yisroel including Rav S. Eliyashev, Shlita ruled that it is a "treife" & the milk may not be consumed.
In the Cholov-Yisroel farms, the contracted system is to remove them from the herd & be compensated for the loss. On the other hand by the Cholov Stam-Cholov Akum farms there is no system in place to have them removed.
Any milk product produced from a "treife" is to be considered "non-kosher" & may not be used.
*
There was a mistaken assumption that the major kosher certifiers were relying on an *unfinished "teshuva" from a Rav . * The unfinished Teshuva was writteen some 14 years ago.
There were many Factual & Halachik issues with the unfinished Teshuva. The Rav ended the teshuva with a "Hem'shech-yo'voi" (to be continued), to attempt to rectify the factual & Halachik dificulties.
The Rav recently decided that there is nothing more to add to the Teshuva not factual & not Halachikly. The kosher certifiers & the consumers can't rely on an unfinished teshuva "that is never going to be completed". (especially when there are still unresolved serious factual & Halachik assumptions ). In retrospect "how did any one ever rely on an unfinished teshuvah"??
Rav Eliyashev recently told Reb Yudel Shain "one may not rely on that Ravs HETEIRIM including the heter of the operated cows that they aren't a treifah". Rav Eliyashev said further the cows are to be considered a treifah & any farm that doesn't remove them from the herd, you may not use the milk.
Rav Eliyashev recently told Reb Yudel Shain "one may not rely on that Ravs HETEIRIM including the heter of the operated cows that they aren't a treifah". Rav Eliyashev said further the cows are to be considered a treifah & any farm that doesn't remove them from the herd, you may not use the milk.
So we remain with the Psak of all of the Major Poiskim "all of the CHOLOV STAM & CHOLOV AKUMUM is "ossur" and not permitted to be used".
What is a DA?
I. Left Displaced Abomasum and Its TreatmentThe primary cause of the problem requiring surgical intervention for its correction is apparently the diet provided dairy cows in order to increase the cows’ production of milk.
3 Housing cows in short stalls may be an aggravating factor since cows confined in such stalls may experience difficulty in rising to their feet. Struggling to rise may cause a malposition of an already dilated abomasum. The problem appears to be virtually non-existent in countries such as Australia and New Zealand where cattle are not normally fed grain but are simply allowed to graze in unconfined pastures.
4 The high carbohydrate diet provided in this country, or perhaps the accompanying reduction in consumption of grass, results in a high concentration of unabsorbed free fatty acids which decrease motility of the smooth muscle of the cow’s fourth stomach, the keivah or abomasum. As motility decreases, gas formation is increased by the liberation of carbon dioxide from the reaction between rumen bicarbonate and abomasal hydrochloric acid. As a result the abomasum becomes filled with gas. The abomasum normally lies to the right of the ventral midline along the abdominal wall. When distended by gas, the abomasum may become displaced and move to the left flank between the rumen and the body wall. As the distorted abomasum rises and moves out of place it may also become twisted at the point of connection of the abomasum to the intestine. In both its rising and twisting the abomasum behaves in a manner similar to a balloon filled with air. This twisting of the abomasum interferes with the free flow of the contents of the abomasum into the duodenum and the intestines. If the condition is not treated, the cow will stop eating and its milk production will decline drastically or it will suffer torsion displacement of the abomasum and die. Corrective treatment of this condition consists of anchoring the abomasum in its proper place.
Left displaced abomasum (LDA), as the condition is known, was first recognized in 1950. Since then the diagnosis has been made with increasing frequency. Professionals in the field report that it is their impression that surgical correction of LDA has become much more common in recent years.
5 It is thus not entirely surprising that rabbinic authorities remained unaware until recently of what has now become a relatively high incidence of surgical treatment to correct this condition that causes the animal to become a treifah. The incidence of LDA is the subject of a recent study by Dr. Steven Eicker of Cornell University’s New York State College of Veterinary Medicine in Ithaca, New York. His study of some 13,000 cows on 26 farms in New York State6 shows a variation between farms in the occurrence of left displaced abomasum of between five and fifteen percent.7 The mean for the farms surveyed is between seven and eight percent.
None of the farms surveyed showed a prevalence of less than five percent.8 "Shishim" is 1.67%
NOTE: November 28th, 2010-The NEWER procedures including the German, swiss methods all make it a "treifah".
NOTE: November 28th, 2010-The NEWER procedures including the German, swiss methods all make it a "treifah".
114 comments:
It's actually a misnomer. Others claim that What Reb Moshe was Matir to rely on Government inspections make the milk cholov -stam.
this is really scary i hope you are able to get the word out ALL over. not just for us treife internet users who turn to you for the emes
I was wondering the same thing as Joseph. Do you know the answer?
Breaking Rubashkin News
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/07/breaking-rubash.html
July 09, 2007
BREAKING! Rubashkin Caught Using Meat Hook On Live Cows, Cutting Off Parts Of Ears While Cows Still Living – All Violations Of The Humane Slaughter Act
http://communitym.com/Final%20July%2007%20Web.pdf
Quoted in the Sephardic Community Magazine, Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer, Rabbinic Coordiantor of the OU states:
"Many renowned poskim, including those who render p'sak for the major national kashrut agencies, have ruled that DA cows that have undergone this stomach operation are NOT thereby rendered terefot. One of the many reasons given is that the abomasum's layers are not punctured directly; the hole in the upper layer is not aligned with the hole in the lower layer, such that a straight hole is never made. A vast minority of cows suffer from DA, and the halacha of rov (go according to the majority)would permit chalav stam, especially in light of the fact that so many poskim consider DA cows to be kosher anyway."
Rabbi Shain, your response?
"There was a mistaken assumption that the major kosher certifiers were relying on an *unfinished "teshuva" from Rav Y. Belsky, Shlita."
So, what do they think they are relying on? Or, do you think they are intentionally being macshil the rabim?
Despite their many faults, I would find it hard to believe that they do not have any basis whatsoever in their own minds for being moreh hetter.
Quoted in the Sephardic Community Magazine, Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer, Rabbinic Coordiantor of the OU states:
"Many renowned poskim, including those who render p'sak for the major national kashrut agencies, have ruled that DA cows that have undergone this stomach operation are NOT thereby rendered terefot. One of the many reasons given is that the abomasum's layers are not punctured directly; the hole in the upper layer is not aligned with the hole in the lower layer, such that a straight hole is never made. A vast minority of cows suffer from DA, and the halacha of rov (go according to the majority)would permit chalav stam, especially in light of the fact that so many poskim consider DA cows to be kosher anyway."
Rabbi Shain, your response?
LET ME QUOTE FROM THE PROCEDURE MANUAL FOR TOGGLE REPAIR OF "DA'S
Perforate the abdominal wall and the abomasum with a swift downward
push of the trocar.
Before removing the trocar needle from the second suture site.
AS WE CAN SEE IT PUNCTURED STRAIGHT THROUGH 2 TIMES-WHICH MAKE IT A DEFINITE TREIFE.
The "toggle-method" is very prevelant now as "the method".
The Swiss method also perforates straight through-makes a treife.
All of the Major Poiskim including Rav Eliyashev, Rav Vosner, the Aida etc concluded that it's a treife.
There is no issue of ROIV, as Shishim is 1.67% and the percentage is in the 5%+- range, besides the treifas of BLOATING, "C" section etc.
So we are down to the wire without anything to hang your hat on to find a reliable Heter.
Rabbi Shain,
Can you help us with a definition between Cholov Akim and Cholov Stam?
Thanks!
About 15 years ago, after the Chassidishe complained, BMG stopped putting out the butter donated by the USDA, even though R' Aron had no problem with it. This is a different shmooz but it was a chutzpa that the yeshiva caved in to the Chassidishe. That means that the Kotler clan and various yungerleit who have reshus to take yeshiva's food home are getting it. Does the yeshiva's posek, Dayan Forscheimer, hold that there is no rov to be mattir herds with treifa?
Dear Rabbi Shain,
There are many methods for treating DA cows. Some undergo various newer procedures (including full piercing - at an angle - which may have different halachic ramifications), some undergo mere rolling, some undergo sutures which do not piece the abomasum, etc., and many DA cows are entirely removed from herds from the start due to associated health concerns.
I spoke with Rav Belsky last week several times. He fully holds by his teshuva, in which he provides numerous, independent reasons for his p'sak that DA cows are not tereifos and why cholov stam is unaffected by DA cows.
The fact is that some dairy farms have high DA incidence rates, while some have very low rates, often less than 1%. One cannot know from which herd a specific container of cholov stam derives - is there shishim in the herd or not? - and there is therefore a sofek shishim, which is l'kula. (See YD 98:2 and Taz. Ibid. s.k. 3.) This leaves us with the equivalent of a simple rov, which permits it.
Obviously, many, great poskim do not agree with the DA heter, and the article from Rabbi JD Bleich of YU which you quote is an excellent presentation of this opinion.
Kol tuv,
Avrohom Gordimer
To Rabbi Gordimer.
There aren't any 1 percent herds in the USA that are selling the commercially available dairy products.
There is no shishim in the farms-even no sofek to be mitztareif.
If Rabbi Belsky would be comfortale with the teshuva, he would have finished it a long time ago-or at least now.Rabbi Belsky only wrote a half teshuvah to protect the dairy kosher certifiers in the USA.
Sure the Teshuvah wasn't finished, because it's a catch 22- If he finishes it and All the Poiskim disagree, the certifiers have a check-mate. On the other hand if doesn't finish it , he can always say "I got something more up my sleeve".
RE: sutures & rolling etc. removed DA's discounting all of those, all of your farms have in the 4-5% range of treifes.
They also do electric stapling "a blind shot" where all the missed staples went to, and the staples also made a treife.
Don't forget to count bloating, "C" section among others & you are above the 4-5% number.
Butter from the USDA had other issues also. Colors, Whey, Gevinas akum issues etc
The difference between cholov akum and cholov stam is irelevant in the usa as it is all "cholov-treife", until that time that the kosher certifiers decide to abide by the Halacha & have all of those cows removed from the herds.
"Butter from the USDA had other issues also. Colors, Whey, Gevinas akum issues etc"
I have heard that the other issues with butter are nogaya to commercial varieties sold in stores that have many additives but that the bare basic butter from the government food program does not. The chassidishe had a problem that they don't hold by R' Aron's shita on unadulterated butter.
We would also like Rabbi Gordimer to comment on the latest Rubashkin scandal, being that they are after all an OU client.
Who says USDA butter don't have other additives etc which you call adulterated?
"Who says USDA butter don't have other additives etc which you call adulterated?"
That was what was being said around the BMG dining room at the time. It makes sense because the issue with additives in butter was known for years before this. I think it's safe to assume that the yeshiva was aware and would only use unadulterated butter in line with R' Aron's shita.
R' Hershel Schechter is the other outside OU consultant. Does anyone know if he agrees or not with the Belsky philosophy on percentages in herds?
"the latest Rubashkin scandal"
When commenting on Rubashkin scandals, you have to be very, very specific considering how many there are.
Are you referring to the tumult with the federal "Humane Slaughter Act", kashrus sleuthing by Rabbi Shain or updates on investigations by any one of many federal, state and local government agencies?
This of course calls into question the heterim of not being makpid on keilim of cholov "stam".
Are most heimishe hashgochos makpid on keilim or no?
There they go again throwing out percentages which they refuse to verify. Last time it was Seth Mandel with his "less than 5%". Now it's Gordimer with his "often less than 1%". Why is this a guessing game? Is this what we are rely upon the OU for, guessing games? Let them send out a team of "experts" to ascertain the average of DA cows. Rav Yudel quoted a study which states that it's 5-15% which makes it all treife. Enough of this coverup and guessing games. The kosher consumer deserves to know the truth. These "coordinators" that they keep marching out to argue with Rav Yudel and the many poskim are truly pathetic and their amei aratzut shows through and through. Until we get some real answers and until they clean house, the OU cannot be trusted as a legitimate kosher supervising agency. Whether it's the Rubashkin fiasco, or the Le Marais fiasco or the strawberry fiasco or the chalav akum fiasco, they show that they cannot be trusted.
anon2:54, cholov stam or cholov akim you mean?
Cholov-stam, Cholov-akum, Cholov-yishmael all add up to CHOLOV TREIFE.
In Europe the mistakenly think they don't the same veterinary problems. In Europe therefore even Cholov Yisroel is questionable.
It would be advisable to ascertain what type of training the Mashgichim on Cholov Yisroel farms have, in order to be able to ascertain which cows have gone through any of the procedures that would render the cow a TREIFE.
Does the Kosher certifier do the training or does a veternerian? perhaps it's the farmer?
The rationale of DE was quite questionable without this issue as R' Moshe himself writes to kasher the utensils. IGM YD 2 31 at the very end.
Why was the first comment deleted?
Covering something up Yudel?
I don't need comments with a picture
The OU's head of kashrus, Rabbi Menachem Genack told the Forward that he had not yet "had the chance" to see the new PETA video but that the OU has sent an "inspector" to the Nebraska plant to check it out. Rabbi Genack also said that, from what he has learned “this is nothing like the same story as Postville.”
What does this mean? Let me point out a few things and then you decide:
In the Forward article, Rabbi Genack admits that PETA contacted him about the newest abuses at Rubashkin's Gordon plant before contacting the media. My sources told me Monday that contact happened more than a week before PETA went public.
Rabbi Genack is currently on vacation. He was due back today but then sometime late Monday decided to take an extra day off.
Even though the video is very short, less than five minutes in duration, and widely available on the Internet, and even though PETA approached him days ago, Rabbi Genack could not find the time to view it.
The OU apparently has no presence at the Gordon plant, yet it puts its hechsher on the meat killed there.
The abuses at Gordon are less severe than the abuses at Postville because the animal is standing in Gordon and on its back in Postville. The extra fear and stress from upside down slaughter and from being flipped right side up and dumped onto a bloody floor immediately after slaughter extends the dying process.
Further, as bad as the shechita is in Gordon, what was passing for shechita (and may still be passing for shechita) in Postville is much worse. Why? Because of the design of the Weinberg Pen used for upside down slaughter in Postville. Shoctim, have to be very careful using the Weinberg Pen because its design makes it very easy to bring the knife in contact with the pen's metal, which causes damage to the blade and means that a shochet must spend a large amount of time repairing that damage and not shechting. This costs Rubashkin money and puts extreme pressure on the shochtim to avoid doing this. So shochtim make shallow cuts that protect their knives but often miss severing the carotids and jugulars of the animals.
In Gordon the extended dying time comes from poor quality shechita and bad animal handling immediately before and after shechita.
Rabbi Genack told me in a 2004 interview that meet hooks would not be used to excise the trachea and windpipe, and that a shochet would do the second cut, if a second cut was necessary.
Today, in researching the OU's position from that time, I ran across a quote from the JTA published in December of 2004. "O.U. officials told JTA on Tuesday that they will make two main changes to slaughtering procedures followed by the plant, which processes meat for the Rubashkin/Aaron’s Best label.
The plant no longer will allow slaughterers to pull out a slaughtered animal’s trachea in order to hasten death. Instead, an artery that supplies blood to the brain will be severed on a second cut.
The Orthodox Union also said it would look for a way to either kill or stun cows that are still walking even after the initial stage of slaughtering."
As you can see in the new PETA video, a meat hook is used. The trachea and windpipe are not excised. Instead they are pulled aside and then the hook is used to hack the major blood vessels.
This may appear less gruesome but it is still a painful, illegal procedure.
Animals that remained conscious for up to two minutes were not put down by captive bolt, even though they should have been.
The OU appears to have no one in charge at Agriprocessors Gordon plant, yet its supervision seal is placed on the meat killed there.
Rubashkin's attorney Nathan Lewin is quoted by the Forward this way:
Nat Lewin, a Washington lawyer who has defended AgriProcessors in the past, said that the video does not show anything illegal or out of the ordinary in slaughterhouses.
“All I can conclude is that it proves that PETA is out to destroy or make unlawful [kosher slaughter] in all its actual implementation,” Lewin said. “The purpose of the video is to have people say, ‘Look, there is a man with a beard and a long knife.’”
Lewin has often compared PETA to the Nazis, like this quote from 2004:
“We’ll put them on the wall with Hitler,” Nathan Lewin, an Orthodox Jew and a lawyer for Agriprocessors, said, referring to PETA.”
Meanwhile, leading Humane Slaughter expert Dr. Temple Grandin joined other leading experts in condemning the latest abuses from Rubashkin and the rabbis who endorse his products:
Among the critics of the new footage is animal rights expert Temple Grandin, who was also a prominent critic of AgriProcessors after the release of the 2004 video. She visited the Iowa plant last year, after a series of reforms had been implemented, and gave it a clean bill of health. Now, in response to the new footage, she is again criticizing the company.
“They’re not working on fixing the details of their procedure,” Grandin told the Forward. “Now, it’s nowhere near as bad as the other AgriProcessors thing. I would label that atrocious. This I would label poor.”
The USDA's FSIS spokesman Steven Cohen told me in an email Monday that the statement attributed to the USDA and reported by the AP on Monday afternoon, that the USDA sent an inspector to the plant and found no violations, "does not accurately represent the position of the agency."
Here's what the USDA told the Forward:
A spokesman for a branch of the United States Department of Agriculture, Amanda Eamich, said that her agency had sent a veterinarian to the Nebraska plant after receiving the PETA complaint. Eamich said that her agency is “reviewing the procedures” at the Nebraska plant but has not made any conclusions.
My sources tell me the OU knew about the PETA findings before the USDA sent its inspector. Rubashkin also had prior warning.
Last time around, the USDA sat on its internal report for almost one year. When it was forced into the open by PETA and the the media, it became clear why the USDA held the report. The USDA had ignored Humane Slaughter violations at Agriprocessors. Its inspectors played computer games while on duty, slept and took presents of cold cuts and beef from Rubashkin.
What will come of these latest Humane Slaughter violations? Not much is my guess. Tzaar baalei hayyim, animal cruelty, don't matter much (if at all) to the rabbis who provide kosher supervision. Non-Orthodox Jews largely do not keep kosher. Those who do rely on these rabbis for their meat because there is no other option.
The USDA is perhaps the most corrupt agency in the federal government. Its current head is the former Republican governor of Nebraska, the state where these latest Rubashkin violations took place.
Expect little to come from the USDA's 'review' of its procedures, and expect little, if any, change from your OU rabbis.
Hamburgers sold at McDonald's are produced in a much more humane and ethical way than the glatt kosher burger you're fressing on.
There are other problems in Europe. Corruption among farmers is more rampant and the governments are more inept, allowing them to get away with it. Farmers, especially in Belgium, were buying cheap cow feed on the black market that they knew was contaminated with dioxin. Even candies made with a minute amount of milk were then poisoned.
Farmers in many countries, the Swiss were supposed to be the worst culprits, were hiding cows infected with BSE (mad cow) so that they wouldn't suffer a larger loss in the herd.
And they call Europe "the cradle of civilization".
Feh.
http://www.premiumkosherbeef.com/
This is Rosenblatt meat from Texas under OU & CRC.
http://www.blackwing.com/why_kosher_bison.php
Blackwing is under the OU & Rav Polatchek from Williamsburg.
These are the only 2 producers not criticized by a freye "Jewish" vegetarian group.
What does R' Yudel tayna about their kashrus?
The OU is not giving you the whole truth.
The OU's comment ["Shechita is performed humanely at all facilities they certify."] is an outright lie.
Their total lack of enforcement re: AgriProcessors facilities, both in the USA and South America is a horrible Chillul Hashem in the eyes of the nations.
Alle, a South American operation, is a major problem, which Bruce Friedrich of PETA has brought to their attention last November and very little, if anything, has been done to rectify the horrible inhumane slaughter that takes place there.
If you email me at (jdiamond4@cox.net) and give me your address, I will send you the audio CD's of a debate between Nathan Lewin, Agri's Attorney and Bruce Friedrich, that took place last November in an Orthodox Synagogue in NYC.
Steve,
Calm down and exhibit a minimal of derech eretz. Your nastiness and lack of civility reflect poorly upon you and undermine your credibility and question your very sincerity on these issues. The disparaging attitude that you and so many posters on this blog demonstrate is shameful. I am not concerned with my own kovod, nor do I claim to be a talmid chochom, but when so many writers on this blog are mevazeh well-known talmidei chachomim so casually, their motives and yashrus must be doubted.
My statistics are from Causes and Prevention of Displaced Abomasum in Dairy Cows, by Dr. Randy Shaver of the Department of Dairy Science of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who is one of the most expert veterinarians and DA specialists today and whose research is among the most respected in the field. See also http://www.ansci.umn.edu/Bovine/Protocols/Displaced%20Abomasum.htm for similar US statistics, and http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15265178 for some European cases.
On another topic: USDA butter without hashgocho may contain non-kosher whey cream, non-kosher starter distillate, and its cream may have been pasteurized on non-kosher equipment, shared with who-knows what.
This is my final posting.
Avrohom Gordimer
This is said beshaim Rav Ovadya Yosef shlita:
An important Torah value is to avoid inflicting gratuitous pain on animals (Tzaar Baalei Chaim). The Gemara (Bava Metzia 32-33) indicates that Tzaar Baalei Chaim is a Torah level prohibition. According to the Gemara (Berachot 40a), it is improper to eat before one has fed his animals. The Gemara (Bava Metzia 85a) relates a story of a calf that stuck its head beneath Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi’s coat to escape the slaughterer’s knife. Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi told the calf that it should go to the slaughter, for this is why it was created. The Gemara relates that Hashem brought travails upon Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi as punishment for his failure to pity the calf.
The following Halacha demonstrates the priority Chazal accord Tzaar Baalei Chaim. The Gemara (Shabbat 128b) permits helping an animal that fell into a water ditch on Shabbat by supporting it with a pillow, even though it is a violation of the rabbinical prohibition to render an item Muktzeh on Shabbat. The pillow was not Muktzeh when Shabbat began and becomes Muktzeh when it is placed beneath the animal on Shabbat. Chazal waived this rabbinical prohibition because of concern for Tzaar Baalei Chaim. This passage in the Gemara is codified as normative by the Rambam (Hilchot Shabbat 25:26) and Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chaim 305:19). In fact, this Halacha serves as the basis for the Shulchan Aruch’s (O.C. 305:20) permission to ask a non-Jew to milk a cow on Shabbat. Rav Ovadia points out that it is rare for Chazal to waive a rabbinical prohibition relating to Shabbat. Tzaar Baalei Chaim is one of the very few considerations that merit such a waiver.
The Torah expresses its concern for Tzaar Baalei Chaim many times. The Mitzva to unload a donkey from its heavy load, the prohibition to muzzle an animal while it is threshing, the prohibition to plow with two different types of animals, and the angel reprimanding Bilam for needlessly striking his donkey, are a few examples of expressions in the Torah’s that we not harm an animal needlessly. Part of Eliezer’s test of Rivka’s character was to see if she also gave water to his camels. Sefer Hachinuch (Mitzva 550) explains that a reason for the prohibition to plow with two different animals is concern for Baalei Chaim. The different species might be incompatible and working together might torture the animals.
Acharonim express concern for Tzaar Baalei Chaim. A prime example of this concern is Rav Yechezkel Landau’s (Teshuvot Noda Biyehuda Yoreh Deah 2:10) ruling forbidding recreational hunting because (among other reasons) of Tzaar Baalei Chaim. Rav Landau writes that in the Tanach we find recreational hunting as an activity of people of poor character such as Esav and Nimrod.
Similarly, the Ohr Hachaim Hakadosh (Vayikra 17:11) asserts that we have no right to kill an animal needlessly. This, he writes, explains the seemingly odd requirement of the Mishna (Sanhedrin 2a) to convene a panel of twenty-three judges to determine if an animal deserves to be put to death. Indeed, the Rama (Darchei Moshe Orach Chaim 316:2) writes that one who hunts with dogs will not participate in the feast of the Livyatan upon the arrival of the Mashiach.
"This is my final posting."
Gevaldig. So Rabbi Gordimer lectures people asking good questions before he shuts down the conversation.
At least he wasn't as biting as the OU was to Yitzchak Bitton, former mashgiach of le Marais.
"USDA butter without hashgocho may contain non-kosher ..."
Does the USDA also distribute butter that IS under hashgocho?
The poor OU is having the same problem now as the Agudah. The OU cannot stop the free exchange of information on the internet, just like it no longer helps the Agudah cut microphones and edit tapes when there's someone sitting at the front of the convention with an i-Pod recorder.
The Rishon, Orchos Tzaddikim, says that every bad thing can be used for tov. Our heimishe mosdos should know they will be held accountable and cannot cover everything up anymore.
"when so many writers on this blog are mevazeh well-known talmidei chachomim so casually, their motives and yashrus must be doubted."
I can't speak for everyone ober ich halt zich a talmid fun R' Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz z'l who spoke up against corruption in the rabbonus. The Agudah has gone to great lengths to suppress that michtav but it aint working.
Rabbi Gordimer is probably bezunder upset that a certain rov has been criticized on this blog lately. He may not know or may not want to admit it, but that rov has come under attack from gedolei rabbonim. The tzettlach are publicly available.
OH C'MON CUT IT OUT ALL OF THESE COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AT RUBASHKIN, NONE OF YOU GUYS KNOW THE TRUTH. VIDEO'S AREN'T KOSHER FOR AS A WITNESS IN BAIS-DIN.
THE "OU" HAS THEIR MAN IN RUBASHKIN, NONE OTHER THAN DR. RABBI SETH MANDELL.
IF THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN ANY TRUTH TO ANYTHING LIKE IT HE WOULD HAVE SAID IT AND STOPPED IT A LONG TIM AGO-NOTHING GETS PAST DR. RABBI SETH MANDEL-THAT'S WHY THE "OU" HAS HIM DOING THE INSPECTIONS FOR THEM-HE IS BEYOND REPROACH.
DR. RABBI SETH MANDEL, WHEN HE WANTED THE "OU" TO REMOVE THEIR CERTIFICATION FROM RUBASHKIN-HE SAID NOTHING TO THE "OU", WHY?
BECAUSE HE KNEW HE DOESN'T HAVE THE FULL BACKING OF THE "OU"S HIGHER UPS.
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY DON'T DO ALL THESE THINGS AT RUBASHKIN WHEN DR. RABBI SETH MANDEL DOES HIS "UNANOUNCED-INSPECTIONS"? NO-WAY!
IS IT POSSIBLE HE ACCEPTED IT AS A NOTHING WRONG? ASK DR. NAT LEWIN ESQ.
WHAT DOES RABBI WEISMANDEL HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT?, HOW ABOUT RABBI BRODY? THEY DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANYTHING AT THE RUBASHKINS-BECAUSE IT'S THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR $$$$$$-
IF IN FACT THEY DO MAKE CHANGES WHEN THEY HAVE VISITORS ETC, HOW COULD THE "OU" OR DR. RABBI SETH MANDEL ACCEPT THE RUBASHKINS KASHRUS.
RUBASHKIN PRODUCTS AND THEIR KOSHER CERTIFIERS HAVE THE FOLLOWING "MEHADRIN" "SUPREME" STANDARDS:
THEY MAKE "VISITOR" CHANGES.
THEY WILL DISTORT THE TRUTH.
THEY ALL USE MESHICHISTIM.
THEY HAVE NO CONTROL ON THE LABELS.
THERE IS NO KASHRUS CONTROL SYSTEM.
NON-GLATT BECOMES LABELED GLATT.
PLAIN KOSHER BECOMES LABELED GLATT.
NON-BAIS-YOSEF BECOMES LABELED BAIS-YOSEF.
NOT MINUKER CORECTLY IS SENT OUT AS MINUKER.
PIGIMAS THAT THE SHOICHET & BODEK DON'T DETECT.
MEAT IS SENT OUT TO KOSHER BUTCHER WITH THE CHAILEV & KIDNEYS STILL ATTACHED.
THE RABONIM, BOIDKIM GET PAID VERY WELL AS COMPENSATION FOR APPROVING AND ACTING AS "SALESMEN" FOR RUBASHKIN.
AT "HEBREW NATIONAL" NONE OF THE ABOVE GOES ON.
NOW YOU KNOW SOME OF THE REASONS.
Very sharfe post by R' Yudel.
For those readers that are not familiar, the title "Dokter Rabbiner" was used in the Haim in Europe as a sign of disapproval.
I did not mean at all any disaproval by the Dr. Rabiner.
That is his name that he goes by, we can add Dr. Rabbi "shu"b".
Does that mean that Seth Mandell disapproves of himself?
That's a moyradik midda. Dovid Hamelech hoht gezogt auf zich: "ani tolaas velo ish."
Seth Mandell is a shochet ubodek? I thought Rubashkin offers chassidishe shechita?
Rabbi Gordimer,
I cannot stay calm nor keep quiet when I see how our holy Torah is being trampled upon for the sake of profit. Where there is chillul hashem involved, we do not impart kovod, even to the biggest talmidei chachamim. As for motives, I can only speak for myself and say that I have no ulterior motives, and that I only seek the truth. I know I speak for the silent majority of frum Jews who have had enough of the lies and deceit being perpetrated by some of the kashrus agencies. Hashem has sent us a wonderful shaliach in Rav Yudel who is not afraid to speak the truth and expose the fraud and corruption. I am personally indebted to him for his guidance regarding many kashrus issues.
I was commenting on your response to Rav Yudel in which you cite statistics which conflict with the figures of your colleague at the OU, R' Dr. Seth Mandel. When the OU can't get their story straight, it brings out a lot of skepticism and lack of trust from the kosher consumer. The kosher consumer is relying on the OU for the truth. All it takes is for you to send out a team of kashrut experts and agricultural experts to one of the dairy farms whose products are supposed to be under your "supervision". If the results are as you claim, around 1%, then there is no cause for alarm. If they are higher, then you need to either remove all your hashgachas of chalav akum products or have a mashgiach tmidi at all these dairy farms remove all the DA cows.
peta doesnt want Any schchita.
they pick on rubash... because the the biggest.
big and kosher are NOT a good match.
do the math.
1) they are giving inferior kosher at best.
2)puting schchita in sakana.
=) close down.
we as consumers stop using.
There is a very long distance between the letter by R' S. F. and what many have written here and other places. Firstly, as he himself wrote, the honor of Rabbis was dear to him. Not so for some others. Secondly, he only wrote it out of pure concern for Torah- the honor of the Torah is dearer. Not so for some others. Thirdly, even his criticism was written in a civilized and honorable manner. Not so for some others whos keyboards are dirtier than sewage when writing about Talmide Chachomim. This is, of course, besides, and due to, this that he was credible in his own right. This is definitely not so with a nameless post. Even what he wrote surely would never have been published without his name for everyone to see.
We must be cognizant that DA's aren't the only procedure that makes it "treif". We also have the Bloating issue and the "C" section among some other not too common but nonetheless must be taken into account.
The "OU"s expert in DA's Dr. Randy Shaver in his report indicates that the DA ratio is more in the 2-6% range. This is without counting any of the other vet procedures that make a "treife".
The OU's Rabbinical consultant must defend (at all costs) the kosher certifiers' of dairy product. Rabbi oh Rabbi make me a heter, make me a heter.
Some are trying to defend the treife issue in theory, and we are confusing them with the facts.
In Harvard they teach the following;
when the law is in your favor, but the facts aren't-"HARP-ON-THE-LAW.
When the facts are in your favor but the law isn't, HARP-ON-THE-FACTS.
When none are in your favor CONFUSE THE JURY WITH........
I guess in kashrus it's the same.
"Hashem has sent us a wonderful shaliach in Rav Yudel who is not afraid to speak the truth and expose the fraud and corruption. I am personally indebted to him for his guidance regarding many kashrus issues. "
Amen !!!
WHAT IS "CHASIDISHE SCHECHITA"?
It's not a Chosid Schechting.
Breuer "Chasideshe Schechita"??? no-way!
OU Chasideshe Schechita?
Star-K Chasideshe Schechita? no-way.
Seilingold's Chasideshe Schechita? no-way-Jose.
The steer's are? Only Goats have beards.
So what is Chasideshe Schechita???
The best I found was the following:
(Rock Salmon is the flesh of the dogfish, wolffish or catfish, also known as hass/huss. Renamed by marketeers to make the fish more appealing to consumers.
An unknown to make it more appealing to the consumer. AKA "A FRAUD".
What is it realy?
There are 2 ways tho sharpen a "Chalef", one side & 2 sides.
Don't confuse as the sharpening is only done on 1 side of the blade.
It's the method used to sharpen to a razor sharp edge.
/ is one side, v is 2 sides. the 2 sides is sharper but dulls quicker, the 1 side lasts longer.
The Chasidim always used 2 sides, while the Litvishe used 1 side.
Most all shoichtim commonly use 2 sides,HENCE CHASIDISHE-SCHECHITA!
"If you can't convince the consumer,
Confuse him". Great job kosher certifiers & gullible consumers.
The most feared is the woman & she fears the mouse, so the most feared is really the mouse.
In Kashrus there is no fear of the one above, not of Rabonim etc. ONLY THE CONSUMER is feared.
So wake up & demand "no more bi'de'eveds, only li'chat'chilas".
THE OU SCORE:
Randy Shaver 6%
Seth Mandel 5%
Avrohom Gordimer 1%
I know of certain well known Rabbi in kashrus that perception becomes facts to fit a Halachik outcome. A sort of premeditated Psak, very sad that it works.
Shaver, Seth, & Gordimer don't take into account the other Vet procedures that make it into a Treife, which will add another few % points. Shishim is only 1.67%. You still can't fit the elephant through the eye of a needle.
"I know of certain well known Rabbi in kashrus that perception becomes facts to fit a Halachik outcome. A sort of premeditated Psak, very sad that it works."
Isn't it a toyeless for the oylam to know who it is?
If you're REALLY keeping score with the OU, Yitzchak Bitton discovered the the treif at Le Marais is close to 100% incidence.
You may not be able to fit the elephant through the eye of a needle, but they are able to put "BIG BEATLES" in the salad and milchig margarine in fleishigs, etc.
And the OU claims that everything is "under control" at Levana's, the original home of the Le Marais chef and where Levana's baal habos himself was caught earlier by the Chof-K renting treif kelim from a goyishe company for outside catering events.
ARK also had their take-out / caterer use a treif rental agency for their keilim, they also never had a mashgiach on his outside catering & they didn't kasher any of the places of outside catering.
I caught after ARK was there for 3 years.
Did they kasher his place after wards?
Give me a break!-no they didn't.
The kosher certifiers know who makes percieved facts fit the halachik outcome.
Perceptive facts to render a psak?
It isn't the Kof-K, that's for sure.
Rav Yudel,
If for argument's sake, it's true that some herds have only 1% or less of DA/c-section/bloated cows, is that enough to apply "rov" and ignore the majority of herds that are over the limit? Can you clarify in halacha when "rov" can be applied and when it's not applicable?
The 1% theory is a fantasy-It doesn't exist in the actual world of farming (I'm counting all the various procedures).
To Ka$hru$ certifier$ pocketbook$ it also doesn't make a difference- becau$e
"AIN - HOIL'CHIN - BI'MOMOIN - ACHAR -HA'ROIV".
I agree with you, but my point is that even if it did exist in some remote place, would that be enough to machshir all the farms where they are over the limit? I would think that you would need rov in this case also, just like we use rov to matir all dairy consumption.
Brooklyn restaurants that mistreat employees could use this. Shame on the hashgochos for not doing anything and giving a pischon peh to the Conservative kofrim.
Kosher" Certification of a Different Kind
by Arutz-7 Staff
An Israeli social justice movement has established a certification system to award restaurants for “kosher” treatment of employees and the disabled.
Bema’aglei Tzedek, a Jerusalem based non-profit organization, has established a system for altering consumers to positive employment practices and accessibility for the disabled through a system resembling that with which Kosher certification is displayed.
Called the Social Seal (Tav Chevrati in Hebrew), the certificate is now being prominently displayed in over 300 Israeli eateries from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv and various other locales. It was introduced by Bema’aglei Tzedek activists to combat what the organization’s director Asaf Banner calls “an all-too-often ignored, yet deeply troubling aspect of Israeli society.”
Banner, who was among the organization’s founders in 2004, says, “The way that tens of thousands of workers all over Israel are being treated - without regard to their most basic human rights - was a situation that demanded to be addressed. We saw that the social seal was a great way of bringing attention to this issue.”
While the campaign began locally in Jerusalem with organization representatives using the seal as a means to promote the good labor practices of shop owners, it has quickly spread across the country.
Roee Zisman, who manages the popular Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf Café on Jaffa Road in downtown Jerusalem, believes that the seal is something many of his customers greatly value, as well as acting as a motivating factor for employers to improve worker conditions. “The Social Seal is very important in our relationship with our workers,” says Zisman. “I hear many people coming in and asking about it and we feel that there is a large clientele that comes to eat with us because of it.”
In order for an eatery to receive the seal, representatives of the organization will visit the restaurant and observe overall conditions as well as speak with the workers. According to Banner, several seals have been revoked after it was reported that workers’ rights were being repeatedly violated. Violations include cases where workers are being denied breaks or being paid below the legal minimum wage or where the restaurant is lacking appropriate access for the handicapped.
On Tuesday, July 3, Bema’aglei Tzedek held a conference at Jerusalem’s Rose Garden across from the Knesset entitled “Fighting the Exploitation of Custodial Workers.”
Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, Chief Rabbi of Efrat, addressed the conference, which attracted over 1,000 people. He said that despite often being pushed to the side of the social agenda, workers rights is something which is deeply entrenched in Jewish values, as well as the nation of Israel’s retention of the Land of Israel. “The Torah teaches again and again that our ability to stay on this holy soil of Israel depends on our being a holy people specifically in the realm of human relations,” he said. “This is including those between employer and employee.”
It's really a terrible chilul Hashem what goes on. One restaurant under OU was fined $300,000 by the NY State Attorney General for underpaying and treating employees like garbage. Agav, I don't know if it's true, but the baal habus has always been bragging that the OU orders by him by virtue of his kashrus being the best of any OU establishment.
The OU seems to have no problem finding vet experts. Maybe they should find a boki in mathematics to figure out the correct percentages.
UOJ has an "ad hoc Vaad" of consumers who report to him about fraudulent practices by food gesheften who rip off consumers. They have spent several months pressuring take out stores who were charging "tax" on items that are not taxable and who may be pocketing the extra revach. After repeated warnings to the baal habos who wouldn't stop improperly taking money from the rabim, UOJ was mefarsem on Wasserman's in Queens. I know it's true what Wasserman is doing because I have been ripped off there. I studied the tax code and spoke to the tax department in Albany to make sure.
UOJ is threatening that if Wasserman continues after the recent pirsum, he will have State & City agents down there to turn the place upside down.
The Kashrus Organizations are giving a course to all of their employees "how to deal with the kosher consumer-b'derech-kovid". They are bringing world renowned experts with impecable credentials.
The Title of the course is "IF YOU CAN'T CONVINCE HIM, CONFUSE HIM".
As long as you don't get educated in that field you'll never win.
Kosher Today, the Kosher food industry's trade publication, today reports on the latest Rubashkin scandal. (This is not online yet; what follows is the email version.) As usual for Kosher Today, which is run by Menachem Lubinsky, a paid consultant who works regularly for Rubashkin, misrepresents the story. It also fails again to disclose the financial and personal relationship between Lubinsky and Rubashkin:
BREAKING NEWS: New PETA Video Against Schechita Irks the Indians
Gordon, NE... When Agriprocessors agreed to operate a shuttered meat plant two years ago, it was hailed as an act of extreme kindness by the Oglala Sioux Tribe living on the Prime Ridge Reservation. The plant had closed in 1996 leaving many of the Tribe's members unemployed. In fact, President Bill Clinton in a visit to the reservation cited the area's 75% unemployment, which led to the creation of The Oglala Oyate Woitancan Empowerment Zone. When it reopened as Local Pride, owned by the Rubashkin family of Postville, IA, the plant employed 80 of the Tribe's members. A new illegal video by the People for the Ethical Treatment for Animals (PETA) alleging inhumane treatment of animals at the plant was immediately dismissed by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). Officials as well as rabbis confirmed that all procedures at the plant were in full compliance with halacha (Jewish law) as well as US law. PETA has continued to target Agriprocessors as part of what many rabbis believe is an attempt to discredit and possibly ban schechita in the US. But the sharpest words for PETA came from John W. Steele, the President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe: "A year ago, we celebrated Local Pride's one-year anniversary with Governor Heineman and over 500 of our neighbors. Now, on Local Pride's second anniversary, we find our success under attack by political extremists who care nothing for our area, our people or the community we are trying to build." Mr. Steele continued: "despite the fact that PETA's political operatives lied and trespassed to gain access to the plant, the USDA investigated PETA's allegations and found no violations of the Humane Slaughter Act. If PETA's real concern was the treatment of animals at Local Pride, instead of their radical agenda to end the eating of meat and the owning of animals, it should have dropped the matter. Instead, dissatisfied with the USDA's conclusion, PETA has asked the Sheridan County Attorney to investigate and has launched a national media campaign with a bull's-eye painted on Local Pride and Gordon." KosherToday in an exclusive report has learned that the PETA Web site doctored a photo of a box used in the kosher slaughter of animals. The box in the photo was never used at the plant. Attorney Nathan Lewin, who has defended AgriProcessors in the past, told the Forward, that the new video "proves that PETA is out to destroy or make unlawful" kosher slaughter.
Steele's assertion that the USDA "investigated PETA's allegations and found no violations of the Humane Slaughter Act" does not mean no violations took place. It means that, after announcing their intention to inspect the plant, the subsequent inspection found no violations. This is like warning any business that the police will be inspecting your operation in a few days, giving you time to hide any wrongdoing, and then noting that, because the police found no illegalities, nothing illegal had ever taken place there. That is why the USDA was quick to retract its quote, found only in the AP rush article on the scandal, that no violations were found. The USDA, from last Monday evening onward, has insisted that it is conducting an ongoing investigation into alleged Humane Slaughter violations at this Rubashkin plant , and that the AP article did not accurately portray the agency's attitude toward the alleged violations.
The claim that PETA, "dissatisfied with the USDA's conclusion," has asked the Sheridan county attorney to prosecute, is also misleading. PETA asked local Iowa prosecutors to prosecute Rubashkin shortly after the 2004 scandal broke, while the USDA's investigation was ongoing. Why? Because states have their own animal cruelty laws and their own jurisdictional responsibilities. It is also true that the Bush Administration has reduced USDA enforcement and oversight to new lows.
And then we have this:
A new illegal video by the People for the Ethical Treatment for Animals (PETA) alleging inhumane treatment of animals at the plant was immediately dismissed by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). Officials as well as rabbis confirmed that all procedures at the plant were in full compliance with halacha (Jewish law) as well as US law.
The USDA's FSIS Senior Spokesperson Steven Cohen told me via email a moment ago that, "No one from FSIS spoke to" Kosher Today.
Who are the "officials" mentioned by Kosher Today? Who knows. Whoever they are, they do ot represent the FSIS or its investigation.
Here are some questions to pose to your local Orthodox rabbis, the OU and other Kosher supervision agencies (including the Saint Paul, Minnesota-based United Mehadrin Kosher):
Is it kosher to probe an animal's shechita wound with a meat hook a few seconds after shechita and before the animal has lost consciousness, bled out and died?
Is it kosher to cut off a portion of an animal's ear a few seconds after shechita and before the animal has lost consciousness, bled out and died?
If either or both acts are kosher but cause pain to the animal, does the resulting pain (tzaar in Hebrew) violate tzaar baalei hayyim law?
If it does, does that violation render the meat unkosher?
Does it make a difference if most animals at Rubashkin are treated this way, making the suffering a halakhic certainty?
The OU pledged in 2005 to stop using a meat hook on the throats' of animals, yet we see that pledge has not been kept. How does this effect the OU's trustworthiness with regard to kashrut?
What I think most rabbis will tell you is as follows:
Yes, but it's better not to.
Yes, but it's better not to.
No. The animal is halakhicly dead from the time the knife first begins to cut.
No.
That's a complicated question that will take some research to answer properly. Can I get back to you?
I'm not familiar enough with the details of this to comment.
By the way, although he does not look the part, many sources have told me that Menachem Lubinsky is a Gerrer hasid, active in his community and close to the Gerrer Rebbe.
U.S.-based babyfood company Gerber is recalling around half a million packs of organic rice and oatmeal cereal because of a risk babies might choke on the product, a spokesman said on Monday.
Gerber, owned by Swiss drugs group Novartis, said there was a danger that lumps of the cereal might not dissolve properly in milk or water "and pose a potential choking hazard."
The packages were distributed in the United States, Puerto Rico and the Caribbean, the company said on its Web site.
It said the sale of Gerber to Nestle, the world's largest food group, would continue as planned.
Kosher Today in its new issue sent today (and not yet online) accuses PETA of doctoring evidence:
KosherToday in an exclusive report has learned that the PETA Web site doctored a photo of a box used in the kosher slaughter of animals. The box in the photo was never used at the plant.
PETA's Matt Prescott, responding for PETA VP Bruce Friedrich, tells me that the photo in question (seen to the right here and taken from Yeshiva World) never appeared on PETA's Rubashkin investigation website and that the photo appeared on Yeshiva World. Prescott noted that PETA has a firm policy never to doctor photos, video, or other evidence.
But it is more complicated than that. I traced the picture to Answers.com. Answers.com lists the source of the picture as Dr. Temple Grandin, the noted expert on slaughter (see several interviews with her linked on the sidebar of this page). The picture is clearly labeled as "Cattle restrained for stunning just prior to slaughter." The image is copyrighted and may only be used if the owner, Temple Grandin, is acknowledged and the image description is properly credited. Yeshiva World did neither.
In other words, Yeshiva World took the picture without attribution and now either Menachem Lubinsky is lying (or mistaken) or Yeshiva World is lying (or mistaken).
if you feel that he is a kofer why are you visiting his site?
The OU thought they could put up a fight here in 2007 but quit after R' Yudel & the readers wiped the floor with them.
The Queens Vaad on the other hand keeps coming back to make fools out of themselves.
The percentage of Trifos due to lesions on lungs are much higher than the 5% or so you are talking about here.
Does that mean that ALL milk is treif in your opinion???
I was told that in Eretz Yisrael they canno take out the DA because they have no one to sell it to. I saw tsehuvot that resemble R. Belsky's heter from EY.
In fact, at the time no one threw out the cheese even from the cholov yisrael.
No one takes a $$$ loss.
Who wrote teshuvos similar to Rabbi Belsky. If the teshuvos were completed they are already not similar.
I saw a teshuvah from a kolel quoting Rabbi Rabinowitz a rosh yeshivah who was matir.
But, what I heard was that they do not because they cannot afford to take out the DA's in Ey. In Amarica we have goym to sell it to.
Ask R. Yudel. He should have input?
When there is a $$ there is a way. Remeber in teh cholov yisreal people did not thow out the cheese in 1994. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is important.
There are many types of operations performed on the cows. Rav Roth was matir the techniques where there was a sofek if the needle went though. There is no way to determine that and it is not recorded etc. This creates a sofek and milk is lach belach which is batel berov min hatorah. Hence, we have sofek derabanan lekulah. This is documented.
I asked him about the toggle button which goes through with the following sevoroh. We can rely on sofek shishim and are not required to be mevarer. I never understood that.
Later on, I talked to a vet pathologist who told me that the hole made by the toggle button leaves no roshem and you could never tell it was operated on. I found the Netziv who said that according to the Rosh we can be mekil because in such a case we say chozer lekashruso. So, we have a machalokes between the rashba and Rosh (according to the Netziv) and again sofek halacha makes it a sofek derabanan.
R. Belsky's hemschech yovo was to explain how the Shach's chumrah on "meikoro" can be resolved in our case. Actually, most teshuvot do not in emergencies learn like the Shach-for example teh Maharsham. I am not very excited with that shitah.
The flaw with Rav Belsky is that he is somech on terefos chozer lekashruso. This is very daring. At least. he needs to make it a sofek-I think I can provide what he needs.
QED
Rabbi Belsky himself holds that the animal is treif but then comes up with a dray that the milk coming from it is not. Maybe you can find a heter but not leshitaso.
He also mattired the anisakis that are found in the stomachs of fish!!! not just the flesh ones but even the ones in guts he allows to be used ie aardines
Reb Yudel,
Did you look into all these chewing gum's that are manufactured in Israel and sold in all the stores. Everybody buys it but lima'ase the only Israeli hechsher is the Rabanut-obviously not reliable. It also has some hechsher from England. In Israel, is it sold with a good chareidi hechsher? If yes, why is it not included in the gum they sell in Chu"l? Can I assume that the English hechsher knows trumos and maasros? Is there any kosher gum in the USA?
Come on R Yudel, now your going to asur gum?! Every kosher store sells the Israeli gum from Elite and everybody buys it- especially the sugar free gum.What could be wrong with gum?
maybe bmg can sell the usda butter so they can give the struggling yungeleit a bigger bonus than $160.00 for yom tov . Or maybe instead of building apartment buildigs they should use the klals money where its intended ...the choshuva yungeleit
http://www.friedas.com/index.cfm?show=products_detail&side=products&category=Dried%20Fruits%2C%20Vegetables%20%26%20Nuts&pageNum=4&id=480
How can NY supermarkets under hashgocho sell this item? Assuming that vine dried raisins are not sprayed with any non-kosher agents, is one to believe that field drying in the Mojave Desert attracts less insects than regular field drying? I would think something in the desert with moisture and sugar would attract even more insects.
"These "Flame" raisins are sun-ripened in the Mojave Desert and dried on the vine. They are picked at maturity to ensure a sweet flavor. Raisins that have been dried on the vine are more plump than traditional raisins."
After the tumult here that Chap a Nosh in Cedarhurst was using fresh broccoli "checked" by mashgichim, someone at the Vaad is playing it down that it was the first time such a thing happened in over 10 years, that it happened in response to a very important customer applying "big pressure" on them, and that it is not likely such a thing will happen again in the foreseeable future.
I haven't been there in a long time but about the rumors that two 5 Towns Chinese restaurants do the same thing? This Vaad source couldn't give me a straight answer.
It has been said that traveling for a hashgocho and staying away from home at hotels often is not good for ruchniyus. Someone who was married for a long time got divorced and remarried to a modern orthodox lady who works at the head office. He is someone who was very frum and used to say over from R' Yisroel Salanter and the Alter fun Kelm. He knows their ksovim backwards and forward.
Is fresh broccoli never allowed these days by the national kashrus agencies?
Two items about Montefiore Hospital, the OU cafeteria in the Bronx that is full of treif.
Remember when the OU lynched the mashgiach and even fired his rebbitzen from a different OU job because he did the right thing and warned diners that the food is not kosher after the OU refused to fix any of the severe problems? The OU realized he was easy to manipulate and offered a tiny pittance of a settlement for the big lawsuit he launched against them.
It has also been learned from a frum woman working at the hospital these days that goyim buy from McDonald's, Subway and any other kind of treif restaurants and eat in the OU's cafeteria because no one is enforcing the no outside food policy. This woman only eats kosher food in sealed packages from elsewhere because her rabbonim told her the food at that OU location is treif mamash. She didn't file a complaint about the goyim bringing from McDonald's because nothing is kosher there anyway.
Mucuos is the English word for roik that the Gemara says is one of two things that causes most illnesses.
Queens Vaad Executive Director Chaim Schwartz and his boss Joel Schonfeld are also board members of the Queens Jewish Community Council.
http://qjcc.org/pdf/Yiddish%20Fest%2020110817.pdf
QJCC recently hosted a Yiddishist Fest by Workmen's Circle / Arbeter Ring which is a "Bundist" organization.
The Bund was a movement of freye Yidden started over 100 years in Russland that was Marxist and atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forward
The Arbeter chevrah started the Forward newspaper. I hope that doesn't replace the Yated as you know who's favorite newspaper.
OU certified Rubashkin chickens coming home to roost?
Here's what happened since with a high ranking OU official who was involved in the cover ups of both the Le Marais and Montefiore scandals leading up to the mashgichim being fired because they are honest & straight and being bashmutzed so that they can never get another job in hashgochos.
One of his sons was arrested for witness tampering in one of the Kolko molestation cases.
Another one of his sons was arrested for driving with a suspended license, mowing down and killing a pedestrian, the Turda Rov ztl who was visiting from Eretz Yisroel. The Turda Rov was a Holocaust survivor in his 80s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lAt1ZGHhVZE
Rabbi Moisha Turner turns up giving hashgocho to a caterer or two. Turner's hashgocho is owned by Rabbi Spivak in Monsey who uses Turner when clients are wary of Spivak's bad reputation and standards. Spivak is giving hashgocho to all kinds of goyish owned places that are open & cooking on Shabbos, and mistam doing anything else they want, without a mashgiach ever checking on them. Spivak is also rosh yeshiva of a strange yeshiva in Monsey where the Jewish Press's Yaakov Klass is a magid shiur as are a bunch of characters who also run not very serious hashgocho agencies. Spivak is a very modenna guy. A rov once called to inform him that everyone walking by a restaurant of his in Manhattan could see them cooking on Shabbos. Spivak started shouting oy vay and gasping for air like he was shocked. But nothing changes.
WASHINGTON – A bill that would make intentionally mislabeling food products as “maple syrup” a federal crime was introduced by U.S. Senators Charles Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand. Currently this form of food fraud is only a misdemeanor. The legislation would make these crimes a felony, increasing sentences that prosecutors can seek for people who defraud consumers and farmers by intentionally mislabeling maple syrup.
“New York is the second largest producer of maple syrup in the U.S., and we shouldn’t allow production to be hampered by fraudulent behavior,” Senator Gillibrand said. “This bill ensures that producers of real maple syrup can sell their product in an honest market and that consumers know what they’re paying for.”
The bill is being introduced in response to a recent U.S. Food and Drug Administration investigation that determined that a Rhode Island man was marketing and selling a product as maple syrup when in fact it was cane sugar. Cane sugar costs about 2 percent as much as real maple syrup, thus defrauding consumers who believed that they were purchasing real maple syrup. The bipartisan Maple Agriculture Protection and Law Enforcement (MAPLE) Act would increase the maximum penalty for fraudulently selling maple syrup that is not, in fact, maple syrup from one year to five years in prison.
So Congress recognizes that maple syrup is adulterated but the OU keeps pretending it doesn't need hashgocho.
Larry Gordon can print any garbage he wants in 5 Towns Jewish Times as long as he promotes Rubashkin propaganda:
http://www.5tjt.com/local-news/2550-letters-to-the-editor
Special Thanks To Congregation Sons of Israel (Conservative temple in Woodmere)
Dear Editor,
I am writing to express hakaras ha'tov to Rabbi Bruce Ginsburg, Mr. Harry Katz, and the members of Congregation Sons of Israel for the wonderful, warm hospitality that they extend to the residents of Woodmere Rehabilitation and Health Care Center on a regular basis.
Although we have a dynamic rabbi who conducts Shabbos and Yom Tov services for the Jewish residents here in our facility, there are a few residents who prefer to worship in a shul. They prefer to join in the communal singing of prayers with a cantor (he went off the derech after learning in MTJ) and to hear the Torah portion read in its entirety, and they enjoy hearing the rabbi give a sermon from the pulpit. These Woodmere Rehab residents have been welcomed with open arms by the gracious congregants of Sons of Israel.
Each Shabbos, the recreation staff of Woodmere Rehabilitation and Health Care Center bring any residents who wish to attend to Congregation Sons of Israel. There, they are greeted and treated with the utmost respect by Rabbi Ginsburg, Mr. Katz (an officer of the shul and a liaison to our facility), and all of the congregants. They have even been honored with aliyahs.
On behalf of our residents, I would like to thank Congregation Sons of Israel for their friendship, good deeds, and hospitality. The midos of hachnasas orchim and kibud to the elderly so graciously displayed by the members of this shul are exemplary.
Leba Sonneberg,
Director of Marketing and Community Relations, Woodmere Rehabilitation and Health Care Center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4octFRGTwM&feature=player_embedded
Pic n Pay on Ave M claims that Rabbi Gabrielov is their rav hamachshir. Rabbonim do not believe he is independent of the store.
Here they are caught forging the OU.
A rov told me that while he doesn't trust that butcher store on Ave M in any case, that they did not do anything different than many other stores that sell product originally certified by the OU and that they may have grounds to sue the OU for singling them out & making a skandal against them unless they can prove they were not Mehadrin chickens which they likely were.
http://www.cjnews.com/node/88963
Very interesting article on why most mom & pop kosher bakeries will probably go out of business in the next 5 years.
The Reform movement doesn't like palm oil either because they say harvesting causes deforestation and releases too much greenhouse gases.
http://www.conservativeblog.org/amyridenour/2011/12/7/theres-something-not-kosher-about-the-sustainability-movemen.html
A secular writer blasts the Reform movement for lying about it. The write actually uses the term motzee shem ra.
R' Yudel;
It is a Machlokes haPoskim. R' Dovid Feinstien told me that it is NOT Treifah !
I assume you are not going to post my comment, just like last week.
It's pushut "ki'bayah-bi'kutcha" that it's a treifa. Rav Belsky never finished his teshuvah on the issue because he was disproven by many Rabonim, Poiskim, Staten Island Kolel under Rav Kempler-check it out wrote back and forth with Rav Belsky to show him the falacy.
Heinemann says heat generated by a microwave never creates yad soledes bo, no matter how hot the actual temperature of the liquid becomes. Does anyone else hold like that? Does he have a leg to stand on in Halacha?
Oh that must be Star K's lomdus when they are the only ones who say you can kasher a plastic microwave.
The microwave shtikel sounds like another invented loophole to try to get around bishul aku"m.
The very small red dots garnishing sushi are caviar of capelin fish from Iceland under OU.
They are mamash small. Do they have anisakis too?
Hundreds of Rabbonim say its OK - but Shain says: the consumer has nothing to rely on.
Mod'neh!!
Rav Eliyashev, Shlita & Rav wosner, shlita & the Shulchan oruch all say that Shain's facts & Halacha conclusions are correct al pi torah, the others are being.....
Mar 19, 11:32:00 PM
Every body knows what the shulchan oruch says.
Everybody can draw conclusions. But nobody has the same facts as you, Reb Yudel.
Reb Elyashev and Rav Wosner may have drawn the
same conclusion as you based on the facts that YOU gave them. But many many Rabbonim seem to think that your facts are not accurate or not accurate enough to draw the conclusion you came up with.
So YOU should maybe follow your conclusion but you can't say that tens of thousands of frum consumers have nothing to rely on. Period.
Rav Eliyashev, Shlita was very much aware of all the facts "not from me".BTW- Rav Vitman from Tenuvah coresponded to Rav Eliyashev & rav Belsky, shlita back & forth. It remained that it's a TREIFA. Rav Eliyashev told me "the cows are the same here & over the rest of the world & I know the facts & it's treif".
He said further that the Heter from Rav Belsky is not based on correct facts nor on the correct Halachos, therefore he said don't call it a Psak, call it a Heter that should not be relied upon.
Can someone explain to me the "lomdus" of Star K who will not give hashgocha on Non- CY, but will thru Young Israel.
Sounds fake to me
Most of the Artscroll shas is supported by the MO members of Queens Vaad shuls vos hoben gelt.
The shas is called Schottenstein Shas noch der Tatte.
But there is anther memorial far der Tatte:
OSU’s enormous Jerome Schottenstein Center, which is used for basketball and hockey games.
Far gelt the MO and YU Chevrah will mix shas and Sports. And CS's Agudah is doing the same for the Siyum Hashas. Mixing Sports and Shas.
OK what does Rabbi Heineman claim as to "WHY" they will give non-cy hashgocha thru YI but not thru Star K
Star K has been caught doing non-cholov Yisroel even without Star D.
One example is the cheese packets in Wacky Mac under the OU. The packets themselves are Star K and NOT cholov Yisroel.
They have also been caught doing other things when they think no one will catch on like certifying in inappropriate places while denying they were there for a catering job. Even for a gay "wedding" they will send a mashgiach in a baseball cap & jeans and will lie to conceal it.
ANONYMOUS SAID: Star K has been caught doing non-cholov Yisroel even without Star D.
One example is the cheese packets in Wacky Mac under the OU. The packets themselves are Star K and NOT cholov Yisroel.
They have also been caught doing other things when they think no one will catch on like certifying in inappropriate places while denying they were there for a catering job. Even for a gay "wedding" they will send a mashgiach in a baseball cap & jeans and will lie to conceal it.
Tue May 08, 04:46:00 PM 2012
PLEASE TELL ME WHERE YOU SAW THEM AT A GAY WEDDING??
There are other ways of knowing what Star K is doing besides being there in person. There was chilul Shabbos at Yankee Stadium during a kosher bar mitzva where Star K caters. We know because the NY Times wrote a detailed article. When treif was covered up by another hashgocho the mashgiach complained to his rosh yeshiva & then quit. There are many ways to know.
http://pitputim.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/is-milk-kosher-in-melbourne/
Someone here quoted Rav Belsky as holding by his teshuva.
I was part of a group who met with Rav Belsky about 18 years ago, just after he issued his psak. We spent three and a half hours talking with him in his house over this issue. At the end, someone asked, "Rabbi Belsky, would you eat the cow that had this procedure done to it?"
"Chas Veshalom," he replied.
"Why not?"
"The teshuvas Harashba", he replied emphatically.
"So why do you permit the milk?"
"There are many sefeikos," he answered.
This is very important for everyone to understand.
Post a Comment