NOTE: The following information is correct. There are others attempting
to confuse the facts with their theories.
Sushi, Fish Sticks, Imitation Crab, surimi, all use minced (not ground)Pollock fish which is infested. Caviar (fish eggs) used at Sushi stations also infested. Yellow tail is a type of flounder, also infested.
Lox is from farmed salmon. Lox from wild salmon even if sliced thin is infested.
to confuse the facts with their theories.
Sushi, Fish Sticks, Imitation Crab, surimi, all use minced (not ground)Pollock fish which is infested. Caviar (fish eggs) used at Sushi stations also infested. Yellow tail is a type of flounder, also infested.
Lox is from farmed salmon. Lox from wild salmon even if sliced thin is infested.
123 comments:
Is there any brand fish stick that the pollock is minced finely enough that there's no berya or made from a non-infested species besides pollock?
Reb Yudel,
Why do you make believe that you don't know that the pollock factories check the fish for parasites.
Why are you being moitzee la'aaz on all the ehrliche mashgichim who supervise these productions?
It's a problem because kemat all the yeshivos and girls schools are serving the fish sticks. They are cheap and easy to prepare. When you show them the letter that R' Dovid Feinstein does not agree with the matirim saying they heard from his father, you would not believe the excuses and distractions they come up with.
don't forget the fish roe [eggs] that have tiny worms inside that are served either like caviar or as a garnish to sushi
Most of you probably remember Gershon Winkler, musmach of Yeshivas Novardok in Boro Park. His father was the rov of Coperhagen, Denmark before the war. He was the mechaber of "The goylem of Prague". One day my rebbe comes into shiur very upset that he bought this book for his kids and he could not believe how prust it is. Winkler's next book "They called her Rebbe" was assered by the gedolim. Winkler then left Brooklyn and started a slide that took him completely off the derech. Several years ago, I showed a newspaper article to a rov who knew him from Novardok that Winkler said in an interview that he was teaching kabbalah and living with multiple young pilagshim at a commune in New Mexico.
Now the bum is giving hashgochos:
http://agr.mt.gov/business/foodbev/beverages.pdf
Trapper Creek Winery
crafted for the adventurous
Ken Schultz Owner
310 N 4th Street, Suite F
Hamilton, MT 59840
(406) 363-6323
alotau2002@blackfoot.net
Kosher Certified by Rabbi Gershon Winkler
Montana’s only producer of pure honey meads and wild MT berry flavored meads.
http://walkingstick.org/Faculty.html
Winkler's foundation is promoting American Indian "shamanism" kishuf together with Indian goyim he hired for this purpose
http://walkingstick.org/israel/ryans-israel-pics-418.jpg
Winkler no longer wear a yarmulka even when visiting mekomos hakedoshim in Eretz Yisroel. This is him with a woman rabbi that he lives with.
http://walkingstick.org/israel/ryans-israel-pics-046.jpg
Here he is with weird robes banging some kind of bongo drums at such a place in Israel
Mashgiach,
Take it up with the Vizhnitzer Chevra Mehadrin in Monsey and all the other rabbonim who say the fish still has worms. R' Yudel is far from a daas yochid on this.
What's the story with Zalman Krems taking over "someone's" old job at KVH Boston? When Krems was at the Oregon Vaad he would not even allow treifah milk from DA cows. Maybe if someone acts like a mature adult they will be able to make progress and change at KVH this time for all the other kashrus problems despite the left wing and non-orthodox controlling forces.
...change at KVH this time...
You claim the KVH is osur by definition so why are you worried about them?????
Anonymous said:
"Mashgiach,
Take it up with the Vizhnitzer Chevra Mehadrin in Monsey and all the other rabbonim who say the fish still has worms. R' Yudel is far from a daas yochid on this".
===============================
My comments:
I doubt that any of these "Chevra Mehadrin" were ever in a pollock factory to see the "metziyus" first hand. Even if they may once have been in a random factory, their one time experience is no match for my repeated positive experience in this area in all the factories in the many productions that I've supervised.
Based on my many trips to China, these factories do an impressive job of checking the fish for parasites. [This isn't to give them compliments for their diligence. For them it's simply a matter of $$$, since the customers specifications spell out that the product better not be infested. They also have international standards to adhere to such as HAACP].
After they get finished doing their thing, I can comfortably attest that is not considered anymore "muchzak be'toilaim".
This is is a far cry from R. Yudel's blanket assertion that all pollock fish (even minced) is "infested"!
Gimme a break Reb Yudel...When was the last time you checked out a pollock factory in China?
That mashgiach faker that was many times in china to check fish was also there for hisachdus on the "first day of Pesach" according to the manufacturing date code (MK?).
HHACP? The mashgiach is so full of hot air- Haacp is just for temperatures, but the mashgiach can't read english, chinese only pictures-he's one big glechtah.
First class fraudster.
Even an Israeli holds first day Pesach.
Zalman Krems is a Bostoner chussid. Will he be substitute ruv on an off Shabbos or they only let the clown fin free'er do that because a clown is not a threat?
Toasted black sesame seeds are a tastier substitute for the fish eggs on sushi. Since most stam sushi is partially pollock, I have them make a special roll with uninfested minim like combination (farmed) salmon and tuna. I also make sure the roll of nori seaweed is not under Star K or whoever else doesn't care to inspect for pests.
R' Yudel, can you check out "Kani" salad & tell us what you think? It is very thin strips of pollock in a hot sauce. If lox is sliced so thin that it's ok the lichoyra also Kani. Many haymish supermarkets make Kani either at the sushi station or at the fish department.
The Japanese amberjack or yellowtail, Seriola quinqueradiata, is a fish in the family Carangidae. It is native to the northwest Pacific, from Japan to Hawaii.
It is greatly appreciated in Japan, where it is called hamachi or buri (鰤). These hamachi or buri are often used in the Japanese food sushi. They are also eaten cooked and are a seasonal favourite in the colder months when the meat must have higher fat content.
Some places also make sea bass sushi and since real
sea bass is so expensive, they use the fake Chilean sea bass which they renamed from a very ugly & scary looking species the Sawtooth fish which is infested.
Thank you Yudel Shain for saying rechilus on sushi sellers and their respective hashgochos like the Queens Vaad. Queens residents who are fish eating vegetarians have enough to worry about already without you scaring the daylights out of them that living organisms are crawling around in their sushi, which come to think of it, defeats the whole purpose of being vegetarian.
I'm not from Hisachdus, so I can't speak for them about the apparent problem of a production date on Pesach.
We're talking about so called "infestation" in pollock fish, which Reb Yudel keeps complaining about.
The standard procedure in EVERY factory is tho have a crew of workers, using light tables, who check every single fillet for infestation. A person who insinuates otherwise, has either clearly never stepped foot in a pollock factory, or is just being disingenuous.
I am comfortable to say, that fish having been thus processed, are not considered "muchzak be'toilaim".
And finally, to my knowledge, NO company produces fish sticks from "minced" OR "ground" pollock. Their made from fillet blocks. But I think that Reb Yudel was never in a pollock factory, so how would he know that...
Yudel,What happened to the Mashgiach in Lakewood who was busy checking out the Waitresses instead of the FOOD???? I understand this was another Cover UP,where victims were paid off for their Silence!
Even if the manufacturers don't want to agree from a halacha standpoint because they are blinded by the gelt, ha gufa that if they make fish sticks from a non-infested species, they will attract business from the machmirim.
All you manufacturers read this blog.
Make it and we will buy.
All of these hisachdus type masgichim that forget to get to the pesach oil production or have Jewish owned bakeries work on shabbos, etc
Pollock fish doesn't swim in the ocean as blocks, it's minced fish not ground.
If they check it, why are there still worms? cause they only take out the large ones as Rav Revach says?
Yudel's information is again correct, some mashgichim feel it's hurting their pockets, we feel bad for them & their certifiers pocketcs as well.
The kosher consumer wants kashrus without the bubbah maisos.
For those of you who get custom cuts at Gourmet Glatt in Cedarhurst based on a specifically requested shechita as opposed to the others, be advised that the frum employee you speak to then has a goy fetch and prepare the meat. The goy could easily take from another shechita and it's not clear that anyone double checks what he took.
Mr. Anonymous,
I'm not from the Hisachdus, but apparently you must have have something against their mashgichim, which is why you keep bringing them up, even though it's irrelevant to the discussion on hand.
At the end of the day, I have the Ribono Shel Olam to answer to, and
I'm satisfied the fish under my supervision has been adequately checked for parasites. In this case I don't worry about about R. Yudel's ranting, since I know the "metziyus" first hand and not from reading it on some blog.
I often wonder about how Hashem views all those who write on the subject without basic hands-on knowledge...
Obviously, pollock fish don't swim in the ocean as blocks. Neither does it swim as minced fish. The fish is filleted, inspected for parasites, and the INTACT fillets are made into blocks and frozen. These frozen blocks are then sliced into portion size pieces, and then breaded and fired. Anybody telling you otherwise is misinformed.
As for the claim that the Chinese only take out the "large ones", I find this highly doubtful, as the customers specifications are quite demanding, and the Chines can't take chances that the product won't pass the review of the independent Quality Control laboratory.
As for all Rabbi Revach's assertions, I take no responsibility for the big show he put for the rabbanim in the USA. I also don't know the method he uses for the product which is sold under his hashgacha in Israel (he's also in the hashgacha business), and how it's different then when I do a production.
I have also yet to see a controlled experiment with fish that was gutted soon after being caught, as is the case with frozen pollock which is processed in China, vs. ungutted fish which R. Revach was showing around.
There also substantial differences with larger size pollock fish, which swam in the ocean for a longer time, vs. smaller size fish which were caught sooner.
Boruch Hashem, I make an honest living by providing good supervison to the best of my ability. I know that my parnassa is from Hashem, and any production that I supervise was arranged by HIM.
http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2009/06/sorting-through-rubble-message-is-clear.html
My educated and informed guess is that Shua Finkelstein in Lakewood put himself out of his misery, because the Lakewood Mafia protected his molester. His molester is part of a family that donates large sums of money to Lakewood - Beth Medrash Govoha. The Lakewood philosophy of dealing with child-abusers in a "respectful and dignified" fashion, in my opinion, played no small role in Shua's death.
It is no coincidence in my mind, that David "Fifi" Zahler, who over the last years developed a close relationship with Moshe Eisemann (one of the heads of the Agudah's Vaad Lehatzolas Nidchei Yisroel but removed as Ner Yisroel Mashgiach Ruchni because of a kala delo pasik) on the Ner Israel campus in Baltimore, intentionally jumped to his death. Nobody dares to say this publicly, that's why I will.
http://matzav.com/video-cholov-akum-nowadays#comment-114088
Dagim also has an issue with the infested fish, canned salmon, flounder, etc
You sound like a mashgiach trying to do his job erlich. If we could which brand(S) you are the mashgiach, we'd like to buy those.
"the Chinese can't take chances that the product won't pass the review of the independent Quality Control laboratory"
You are kidding right? The Chinese of all people who the most "ehrlich" that they have the highest incidence of cheating?
They will cut any corner they can find.
Dear mashgiach, I might trust what you say if you were talking about any country besides China.
Mon Jan 09, 12:56:00 PM
Reb Yudel,
Its mind boggling that you let such trash from the trashiest blog on the Internet be seen on your choshuver site.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBd16StBUo
Here's a Queens Vaad rabbi celebrating "Yom Ha'Atzmaut" by singing a rock song for a bunch of girls dancing to his "heiligger" niggun. He's the singer in the baseball cap.
The Chief Rabbi of the Israeli Air Force quit this week because frum airmen are being exposed to bad seviva. Maybe Chaim Schwartz can apply for the newly open position since he has so much shimush already bending over backwards to cater to Tzioinim. This would be a perfect fit as Rav Elyashev who previously came out bichsav against the Queens Vaad also came out this past month against joining Tzahal.
Rav Elyashev who previously came out bichsav against ... also came out this past month against joining Tzahal.
He also is against women such as Spotlight's Chosuveh Grebbtzin wearing shaitlach, which of course our Moreah Derech SPOTLIGHT fulfills to the tee.
"Nu?.... And What's So Terrible About a Little Spitting on an 8 Year Old Girl?"
Above quote is from Spotlight's mentor UOJ. Check it out.
These are our askonim of today's generation in the holiest section of Queens.
Thank you for the compliment, but the brands I've supervised productions for remains confidential. Sorry.
You seem however, to miss my point entirely, which is that what I and all the mashgichim are doing regarding parasite inspection is standard procedure, which effectively renders the fish being not "muchzak be'toilaim".
Therefore, the blanket assertion that all pollock fish which is being marketed in the USA is "infested", in my opinion, remains pure hyperbole, and is being moitzee la'aaz on all the ehrliche mashgichim who supervise these productions.
About the Chinese standards of "ehrlichkeit", I will be the first person to tell you that "emess" is not one of their strong points. An understatement in the nth degree. I'm well aware of the problem with them, and as an experienced mashgiach have put in elaborate safeguards to prevent kashrus fraud when the factory is under my watch.
However you misunderstood my comment about the independent quality control laboratory. I wasn't referring to Chinese laboratories, rather to labs in the USA which check out the product for the US importers. They have no "negiyos" either way, and are "mumchim" in this field.
Chinese factories may well try to cut any corner they can find, but their owners aren't stupid. They generally won't cut a corner where it's been made clear to them that there will be a review and investigation on very SPECIFIC points of quality control (which happen to include parasite infestation).
Again,I'm not here to give them compliments for their diligence. However, when it comes to the potential loss of big business, I think that they're savvy enough to realize how this will negatively impact their business, since the customers specifications spell out that the product better not be infested.
We also need to remember the poor worker on the production line who was hired specifically to remove parasites. They have no interest in cutting corners, as they know that their job is dependent on performing quality work. As a mashgiach, I also make my presence visible at the parasite checking station, to supervise the way they're doing their job, and to convey the message to them that I'm on the lookout for shoddy work.
So where are the "mehadrin" who are busy being "mehader" in sensationalism and hyperbole? or is it just plain ignorance of the facts?
Who is calling it trash? The people protecting the molester?
The video with the Queens rabbi is terrible. At the end of the song they are singing the posuk hafachta mispedi. Even the Dati Leumi poskim recognize that since we are still in galus with churban Bayis that these kind of expressions come from secular kefira and are completely inappropriate for Yom "Ha Atzomos"
In case you see a hashgocho from the Debrecener Rov, there is more than one Debrecener Rov giving hashgochos. A line of plum brandy is under hashgocho of Rabbi Dr. Asher George Ehrenfeld, rov of the city of Debrecin, Hungary. I am guessing he is modern orthodox based on his previous positions.
I have seen very liberal interpretations from rabbis of what constitutes "muchzak" betolayim.
http://www.kingsolomonvacations.com/kashruth-kosher-kitchen.html
The King Solomon Kosher Resort in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, is supposedly glatt with mashgiach temidi as well as "cholov Yisroel" and "pas Yisroel" with a chef who is "shomer mitzvot" under the "orthodox" supervision of Rabbi Shmuel Zanvil Waidenbaum and "Rabbi Mikhael Ben Rochelle". Anyone want to bet that's not a real name?
Waidenbaum seems to be the Ponivizher talmid by that name who later went off the derech to become a Conservative rabbi "Sam" and is currently at the Rego Park Jewish Center in Queens.
http://www.ahbjewishcenter.org/katrina6.jpg
This is a picture of him wearing one of those secular fake tallesim that is thinner than a scarf.
He is also involved in a wacky organization call Be'chol Lashon that seeks out shvartzas in Africa who claim they are the Aseres Hashvotim.
http://www.chossonandkallah.com/brochure/king-solomon-vacations/
This is being promoted by frum websites.
Be advised that the following ingredients although not often seen are wine derivatives:
Pyment
Mulsum
Oxymel
"White Mead" - this one can also be treif as it is sometimes also made with eggs of non-kosher birds
The following ingredients are sometimes from wine derivative:
Melomel
Verjuice
Omphacomel
The chinese have barely a few seconds to check a filet. The cold facts are that it's confirmed that the pollock fish still has infestation.
The Mashgiach missed the boat, sorry.
He's in dreamland.
I checked up on HAACP, the mashgiach arived from fantacyland.
The Mashgiach is just trying to confuse the kosher consumer-Don't fall for it.
"The chinese have barely a few seconds to check a filet."
Maybe superfast checking of fillets is a form of Martial art. Have you ever seen how quick those chevra can do Karate chops? R' Chanina Posner says al pi Chazal that Martial arts is one of the matanos that Avrohom Avinu gave to bnei Ketura before sending them to China.
"Big mouth said...
'Rav Elyashev who previously came out bichsav against (C.S. leaves out Queens Vaad) ... also came out this past month against joining Tzahal.' He also is against women such as Spotlight's Chosuveh Grebbtzin wearing shaitlach, which of course our Moreah Derech SPOTLIGHT fulfills to the tee"
The only thing true in that dumb waste of typing you did is to call yourself a bigmouth.
"Grebbtzin"? You want to start losing any semblance of mentchlichkeit by attacking people's wives and relatives now? There was stuff that was never posted on this blog that could have hurt others, because the nimusei milchamah azoy vi shteit in Rambam is to leave women & children out of it. In fact, the Rogotchover learns that Haman at first fooled the melech that he was only killing men but when the melech learned he was also going after women & children, Haman was ordered hanged because even a rasha like Achashverosh draws the line at that.
Where is the giluy from Rav Elyashev demanding women wear only tichelach?
The gedolei EY once assered women in Bnei Brak to wear long shaytelach. The issur was not intended for Americans or for shorter wigs. But one of the ONLY times that Rav Elyashev ever came out against Americans was when he ordered your Queens Vaad to stop ripping up kivrei yesomim to resell for profit and demanded you restore all the damage. Not that the Queens Vaad gives a hoot what gedolim say when you are mayzidim on the biggest avlos in kol Hatorah kulah.
We know you are big "expert" on watching video reruns at Queens Vaad stores to see who is snooping on your kashrus scandals. Does your latest comment mean you are also making a project of being mistakel and me'ayen in people's wives that you are such a mumcheh on their shaytelach?
"Nu?.... And What's So Terrible About a Little Spitting on an 8 Year Old Girl?"
Of course C.S. knows Rabbi Mendlowitz (UOJ) was being sarcastic.
What's your point? You agree with the Neturei Karta & Sikrikim nuts that it's ok? She was seven years old when she was spat on agav.
It's not clear why more gedolim haven't spoken out against it which is UOJ's point. So far we know that Rav Sternbuch did not agree to have his name on a Badatz kol korei supporting the fanatic spitters and Rav Edelstein from Ponivitch said the spitters are full of sinas chinam who are making chilul Hashem and causing a gezairah from all the unwanted international attention.
The Queens Vaad rabbi dancing "the Boogie" is also leading kumzitzen at Conservative temples. Maybe there is a heter to be mekarev there if not entering the chapel but what recht is there to put up signs for it on the bulletin board of the shul of Queens Vaad co-President Rabbi Dr. Richard Weiss? The fact that such a big knacker Queens Vaad shul oylam has no problem with such a thing and may even be interested in attending as they would have no problem with Conservative, just goes to show you why there is such massive pressure on C.S. to not have a normal kashrus standard at the Queens Vaad. Resign!
A big talmid chochom who survived the lager at Buchenwald says he is sickened by the Yerushalmi who are abusing Nazi comparisons which he says is karov to kefirah. As bad as the chilonim are they do not come close to what he saw in the lager with his own eyes that a young boy was ripped apart by a Nazi's a bare hands and a newborn baby was thrown by a Nazi into a frying pan.
Even the ones who are meyached the rocks they throw before Shabbos (like one of Chaim Schwartz's friends did), they are pushing away Yidden from the chance to be mekarev them to frumkeit. And the young boys pushed by their irresponsible fathers to wear yellow stars might go off the derech when they grow up after they realize how they were used.
Finally, he says they are being gorem tzaar to the entire shearis haplaitah who have nightmares and insomnia after seeing this crazy behavior in the news.
I bet it's not even a mashgiach. It's probably the principal of a fish company. I know some of them and this whole anisakis parsha really has them sweating. They are desperate to finesse all the problems away with smooth talk, and if they are in a crowd they think will be receptive to it, they are building up Belsky while trashing the gedolei Eretz Yisroel. I was at a shul where one of these owners started down this road. I don't know if that crowd cares about anisakis but when he brought up Belsky they all attacked him, who's that? The rabbi who protects molesters?
Good on you"A Mashgiach Who Cares said..." you sound like the only person who actually knows what they are talking about. The rest sound like alarmist ignoramuses, all form but no content.
To the fake mashgiach fish monger that lives in "disey-land".
1- Minced fish can't be checked.
2- HAACP has nothing to do with any high standard
In China most of their certifications are obtained by deception.
The following would be more of a concern to you fake mashgichim.
In China, when making minced white meat (Pollock/Hake)for all those items, they may sustitute.
The fish used to make surimi include:
Milkfish (Chanos chanos)
Swordfish (Xiphias gladius)
Tilapia
(Oreochromis mossambicus)
(Oreochromis niloticus niloticus)
Big-head pennah croaker (Pennahia macrocephalus)
Golden threadfin bream (Nemipterus virgatus)
Cod (Gadus morhua)
Bigeyes (Priacanthus arenatus)
Pacific whiting (Merluccius productus)
Alaska pollock (Theragra chalcogramma)
Various shark species
You are a fraud, fake, deceptive masgiach owner or fish monger.
We almost know who you are already, keep writing.
Someone inQueens who at least LOOKS very frum tells everyone that his Queens Vaad rabbi father knows "nothing" about kashrus so he asks any questions to his mother. Here's a clue that the mother may not know much either: the grandchildren are often babysat by an old woman who is completely secular. The parents have no problem that the woman feeds their little kids pork salami "because little kids don't have to do the mitzvos"!! Don't let Spotlight fool you that VHQ affiliated people are not lomdish!
A company that has a good mashgiach and is doing it right re: infestation would be more than happy to say which brand they are. Of course the facility is a guarded secret.
If a masgiach says he can't say the brand(s), he's full of hot air as he is affiliated with the owner.
Shoul one believe a masgiach that is hiding, wouldn't say the brand, his facts are wrong, he's blowing hot air.
Yudel doesn't hide and has been right all along, ask Hisachdus, Dagim, OK, etc among the many others.
Reb Yudel,
As long as you'll post what I write, I'm happy to keep on writing and chipping away at your hotza'as la'az".
Thank you "Pitputim" for your kind words. Yes, I'm a real life mashgiach who has nothing to hide. I'm also not afraid of being "outed". In fact, if it's known who I am, perhaps some of your readership might even contact me with more job offers...
For all those who've never been to a fish factory, I'll let you know that the procedure for checking for parasites takes varying amounts of time. This depends on the size of the fish (smaller=thinner=less time), and the level of infestation (smaller=less infested).
Thinner fish can be clearly seen in a second on a light table, and the thicker ones take a bit more time.
We're talking about people with an expert trained eye, who know what they're looking for, AND THEY FIND IT!
BTW, frozen salmon are checked for parasites in a similar manner, except that it's done in a blacked out room and they use ultra-violet lights instead of light tables.
I have seen spec sheets from the customers, and they have a very low tolerance for parasites. While there may be some that slip through, I feel that a whole, they do a pretty good job, and each individual piece can not be considered "muchzak" to be infested. Sorry if you don't agree with me...
I wonder if you're reading challenged or just misinformed when you keep insisting that fish sticks are made from minced fish. Please reread what I wrote. If you ever were in a factory or have a "shaychus" to the production of this product, you will know that the truth is as I wrote.
As for HAACP, I only threw that in passing. You totally missed my comments about INDEPENDENT laboratory checks in the USA by the customer.
I don't know how they make surimi. If you're insinuating that mashgichim will allow shark meet to be minced into their production, then you've sunk to a new low in your sensationalism.
I do know that when I've supervised the production of "minced pollock" blocks, then minced pollock it was. I also know that tilapia and cod are more expensive than pollock, so there's a real financial incentive to use only pollock fish. Perhaps the same is with the other species you mentioned.
Pros and cons about working for kashrus organizations:
Pro:
The mashgiach follows instructions, and gets paid by the organization. He doesn't need to worry about bloggers ranting against the product he supervises. For that the organization has a PR department.
Con:
Each kashrus organization has their own PR person who deals with the broader public. Mashgichim who work for them don't have the liberty of speaking up publicly. Those that do speak up run the risk of losing their jobs.
=============================
Pros and cons about working as an independent kashrus consultant:
Pro: You deal with individual clients or organizations on a professional level. You are your own boss. You can take the jobs you feel that you can deliver on, and pass on those that you feel are beyond your skills. You can speak your mind, and aren't subservient to others.
Con:
There's nobody out there who cares about you. Your bitachon can be tested, and nobody will back you up if you make an unpopular decision or assertion.
I belong to the latter category.
So while I take a professional stance in protecting my client list, I can still take the liberty of revealing what really goes on in a pollock factory, and stand up for my fellow professionals.
While I'm at it, I also enjoy myself reading the ignorant comments made by "armchair kashrus experts" who've never stepped foot in a pollock factory!
I don't claim to be unique. In fact, I'm arguing that the other mashgichim also follow the same professional standards, which is why I care when people malign them unjustly.
Is the pollock or any other chinese supplied fish substitute checked prior to being minced or after?
Mashgiach,
Farmed salmon do not have anisakis and sea lice on the outside skin are large & easy to identify, so why are you using UV rays to check for parasites?
"Is the pollock or any other chinese supplied fish substitute checked prior to being minced or after"?
=========================
As you wrote, Reb Yudel, minced fish is impossible to check. So obviously, if it's going to be checked for parasites, then it will be checked prior to being minced.
Surimi (Japanese: 擂り身, literally "ground meat", Chinese: 魚漿; pinyin: yú jiāng; literally "fish puree or slurry") is a Japanese loan word referring to a fish-based food product that has been pulverized to a thick paste and has the property of a dense and rubbery food item when cooked. It is typically made from white-fleshed fish (such as pollock or hake), but the term is also commonly applied to food products made from lean meat prepared in a similar process.
Surimi is a much-enjoyed food product in many Asian cultures and is available in many shapes, forms, and textures, and often used to mimic the texture and color of the meat of lobster, crab and other shellfish. The most common surimi product in the Western market is imitation crab meat. Such a product often is sold as imitation crab and mock crab in America, and as seafood sticks, crab sticks, fish sticks or seafood extender in Commonwealth nations.
Lean meat from fish or land animals is first separated or minced. The meat then is rinsed numerous times to eliminate undesirable odors. The result is beaten and pulverized to form a gelatinous paste. Depending on the desired texture and flavor of the surimi product, the gelatinous paste is mixed with differing proportions of additives such as starch, egg white, salt, vegetable oil, humectants, sorbitol, sugar, soy protein, seasonings, and enhancers such as transglutaminases and monosodium glutamate (MSG). If the surimi is to be packed and frozen, food-grade cryoprotectants are added as preservatives while the meat paste is being mixed. Under most circumstances, surimi is processed immediately into a formed and cured product.
The curing of the fish paste is caused by the polymerization of myosin when heated. The species of fish is the most important factor that affects this curing process. Many pelagic fish with higher fat contents lack the needed type kind of heat-curing myosin and are not used for surimi.
Certain kinds of fish, such as the Pacific whiting, cannot form firm surimi without additives such as egg white or potato starch. Before the outbreak of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, mad cow disease), it was an industrial practice to add bovine blood plasma into the fish paste to help its curing or gel-forming. Today some manufacturers may use a transglutaminase to improve the texture of surimi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TubOfSurimi.jpg
It looks completely pureed so what is the problem?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kanikama.jpg
Wikipedia claims these mock crab sticks are made from pureed surimi. I see the sticks are comprised of pressed strips so I'm not sure. Maybe the strips are reshaped from the paste before being pressed into sticks.
In defense of R' Yudel, he is absolutely right to bring up about shark being used.
Remember the farshlofenna OU mashgiach at the gefilte fish facility in Winnepeg? They processed non-kosher species there and who knows what happened when he was playing video games in his office or sleeping?
So the mashgiach says it's checked prior to mincing "the Ahron way". So it's still attached to the bones, how could it be checked?
"Traditions" restaurant & take out in Lawrence is owned by a yeshivishe looking guy, "Scott" Fagin, as he calls himself.
He insists on charging tax on non-taxable items in contrast to the practices of most other stores. According to askonim who spoke first to him and then to Albany after he played games, there is an exemption at the take out counter for sliced meat by the pound, according to NY State Tax published bulletin #806.
"Scott" first ACTS very diplomatically that his accountant told him otherwise and he will look into it and call you back. He never gets back and avoids any further contact when you go looking for him.
NY State Taxation are lowlives who will only penalize store owners who actually pocket the improper tax money. They don't care if out of convenience to not want to make distinctions that the money is being taken out of your pocket to submit to Albany, as if you are not paying enough already in LEGITIMATE taxes. It's not clear at this point if "Scott" is pocketing the gelt or helping Albany to steal from everyone.
"Scott" seems to not be the only troublemaker in Lawrence who has varied interests. When he does catering for modern orthodox girls schools, he is so keen on making sure everything is ok that he personally goes with the girls on Shabbatons and spends the whole Shabbos with them in the hotel.
At least he makes sure SOME of his customers are happy.
Poor Aryeh Ralbag. How many cents on the dollar do hashgochos usually get?
NEW YORK -- Hostess Brands Inc., the maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread, is seeking bankruptcy protection, blaming its pension and medical benefits obligations, increased competition and tough economic conditions.
The Chapter 11 filing on Wednesday comes just two years after a predecessor company emerged from bankruptcy proceedings.
That company, called Interstate Bakeries and based in Kansas City, Mo., filed for bankruptcy protection in 2004. It emerged in February 2009.
But Hostess said Wednesday that its previous efforts to produce incremental change, including the prior Chapter 11 case, were insufficient.
I have no relevant comments to make about "minced pollock" production, since I don't have current information on it. (I haven't done it in years - probably pre-Anisakis tumult).
My previous comment was purely from a logical perspective, that if it's going to be checked for parasites, then it obviously will have be checked prior to being minced.
Whether or not it's checked can be verified by contacting the relevant kashrus organizations.
However I reiterate my assertion that the fish sticks that are currently marketed in the frum community are not made from minced fish, but rather are made from intact fillets, which were inspected for parasites prior to being shaped into their final shape.
http://www.goodygoodstuff.com/
"Kosher certified"
info@goodygoodstuff.com
This company from England with an office or mail drop in NY makes gummies without gelatin or even seaweed derived agar. They are using a little bit of red algae extract called carrageenan and mostly gellan which is bacteria that grows on lillypads.
This product line is being sold by supermarkets in frum neighborhoods with a hashgocho symbol I have never seen before, a KA inside a rectangle. Whose symbol is that?
Final warning to C.S. said...
Just to show how Spotlight picks and chooses what to quote from gedolim, and non gedolim. Everybody knows that just a short while ago REY chaazered over his shia on wigs in a shiur, Which was picked up by ALL the frum media including a audio recording. But its no good for spotlight and his b'nai baayis so he goes off the handle once again.
Spotlight, der groiseh sensateeve baal mussar suddenly comments that he has feelings for the veiber..... NU NU no surprise there.... meer vaisen duch der emes mit em..
So far we know....
Spotlight is trying VERY VERY hard to make it sound smooth. Aye, Your with UOJ and your chailek is with him.
You still can do t'shuva and maybe you avoid the BIG surprise nuch hundered un twantzig.
seeing this crazy behavior in the news.
This is a great great kiddush HaShem.
Just because you live in kew gardens does not mean that you come close to eventhe toes of any yerushalmi. So don't sit here and tells the maa'meeday oylom what to do or not to do.
Quick, name the most healthy drink your nearest store has to offer.
You said orange juice, didn't you?
The labels are always about health benefits - the cartons scream "100% natural!", "Not from concentrate!" & "No added sugar!"
Why not believe them? You squeeze oranges, you put the result in a carton, with or without pulp. End of story, beginning of deliciousness.
But what if we told you that "freshly squeezed" juice of yours can very well be a year old, and has been subjected to stuff that would make a robot vomit?
Tropicana's bottling room. Not pictured: Anything orange.
The Horror: Ever wonder why every carton of natural, healthy, 100%, not-from-concentrate orange juice manages to taste exactly the same, yet ever so slightly different depending on the brand, despite containing no additives or preservatives whatsoever?
The process indeed starts with oranges being squeezed, but that's the 1st & last normal step in the process. The juice is then immediately sealed in giant holding tanks & all the oxygen is removed. That allows the liquid to keep without spoiling for a year. That's why they can distribute it year-round, even when oranges aren't in season.
There's just one downside to the process (from the manufacturer point of view) - it removes all the taste. So, now they're stuck with vats of extremely watery fruit muck that tastes of paper. What's a poor giant beverage company to do? They re-flavor it with a carefully constructed mix of chemicals called a flavor pack, which are manufactured by the same fragrance companies that formulate Dior, Calvin Klein & other perfumes. Then they bottle the orange scented paper water & sell it to you.
And, thanks to a loophole in regulations, they don't even bother mentioning the flavor pack chemicals in the list of ingredients.
http://civileats.com/2009/05/06/freshly-squeezed-the-truth-about-orange-juice-in-boxes/
The packs added to juice earmarked for the North American market tend to contain high amounts of ethyl butyrate, a chemical in the fragrance of fresh squeezed orange juice that, juice companies have discovered, Americans favor. Mexicans & Brazilians have a different palate. Flavor packs fabricated for juice geared to these markets therefore highlight different chemicals, the decanals say, or terpene compounds such as valencine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpene
Terpenes are a large & diverse class of organic compounds, produced by a variety of plants, particularly conifers, though also by some insects such as termites or swallowtail butterflies.
Squalene derived from shark liver oil, is usually found in the following products: lip balm, sunscreen & facial moisturizer.
http://www.amazon.com/You-Might-Zombie-Other-News/dp/0452296390?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290471063&sr=8-1
Could R' Yudel check this out?
According to this book that has the haskama of world famous literary critic Roger Ebert:
Domino, the largest sugar producer in America, uses bone char to filter impurities from its sugar. Bone char is produced using the bones of cows from India, Pakistan and Afghanistan that have died from "natural causes"
The bones are bleached in the sun and sold to marketers who then sell them to the US sugar industry after they've been used by the gelatin industry. The bones are then heated to the point that they become a perfect means of filtering sugar.
And then there's this:
Carmine is made, literally, from ground-up cochineal insects, which is just a more harrowing way of saying mashed red beetles. Food manufacturers are well aware that word has gotten out about exactly what carmine is and that people are less than impressed about it. So a number of crafty manufacturers have resorted to labeling it not as carmine, but instead as "natural color," Crimson Lake, Natural Red 4, C.I. 75470 or E120.
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2007issue4/2007_issue4_sugar.php
The Vegetarian Journal has a list of sugars that do not use bone char.
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj97mar/973sugar.htm
The traditional process of reducing the foam in maple syrup has included the use of lard. Previously, local producers would hang pork fat over a tub of maple syrup and let drops of fat drip into the syrup. Others used milk, cream or butter. If animal products are used in the form of lard or milk, the amount is minute. For example, eight to ten gallons of syrup will involve a quarter of a teaspoon of cream or a pea-sized drop of butter.
Vegetable oil is a common defoaming agent. It can be applied to the end of a wooden stick and dipped into the foaming part of the maple syrup. Most manufacturers of maple syrup now use vegetable oil or synthetic defoamers instead of lard.
One commercial defoamer (called Atmos300K) is composed of monoglycerides and diglycerides. According to WITCO, the producer of this defoamer, these glycerides are derived from "edible meat and/or vegetable sources." Another leading brand of defoamer, Reynolds Magic Syrup Defoamer, also contains acetylated monoglycerides as an ingredient [Richards of Ohio (maple), personal interview July 1996].
It may be difficult to determine whether a particular brand of syrup has an animal or vegetable based defoamer. Most syrups do not use lard, with the exception of certain small-scale products. Brands which are kosher certified, such as Spring Tree or Maple Groves, are unlikely to contain animal products in their defoamers.
It was a simcha gedoila to see Rabbeinu side with Neturei Karta against UOJ and the 7 year old maydela, UOJ of course being someone who Rabbeinu has designated as the Avi Avois Hatumah which requires heaving roik at the very mention of his initials.
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/01/chareidi-fanatics-throw-fish-oil-on.html
We at the Queens Vaad of course have the luxury of picking & choosing when to listen to Rav Elyashev and since we KNOW about Rav Elyashev's issur on shaytelach that one else is aware of except for Neturei Karta, we expect that Rabbeinu will issue another hachroza siding with Neturei Karta for attacking the daughters of the Slonimer Rebbe with shtinky fish oil for wearing shaytelach.
C.S. is supposed to be a mature adult (or at least that was the idea when he was made Chief Shlock Shammess at the Queens Vaad) yet he keeps writing shtussim while impersonating Spotlight.
If you have a link for Rav Elyashev on shaytelach, provide it and we'll see if it's true or another on your lonnnnnnnggggg list of taking things out of context.
What a sick puppy. C.S. talks about doing teshuva. Nuch hundert und tzvantzig it's a zchus to be among those who were matzil tayere neshomos from molester rotzchim. Not were you cast your lot with the OU's heter macher who wrote a letter attacking the Lakewood roshei yeshiva for not being pro-molester enough on behalf of Kolko's nephew.
Afar lepumei
We had some additional individuals check on the current situation re: worm checking in China & Pollock fish...the facts remain that they are still infested when the consumer receives it.
The Mashgiach as very good intentions but the cold facts don't bear him out.
http://rabbidavidsheinkopf.com/
Rabbi Dr. David Sheinkopf promotes that he is a musmach of Chaim Berlin but fails to mention that he was a Conservative rabbi most of his life. Mentioning that detail would make it harder for him to push his false kashrus agendas.
It's unfortunate that Ktav Publishing allowed him to spread his agendas to the masses with a 2010 book. Ktav has sunk from the platform for left wing modern orthodox to this kind of garbage and even the Reform siddur from Sheldon Zimmerman who was forced to resign 12 years from the top position in Hebrew Union after it emerged he was committing adultery with married women.
Sheinkopf uses this website and book to push his money making agenda on treif gelatin, carmine color and kitniyos.
Reb Yudel,
According to your version all the fish used for fish sticks is minced, and is therefore impossible to check for parasites. So please enlighten us these exactly how these "individuals" "checked" the situation.
Can you also kindly please share with us the following:
1) the qualifications and expertise of these "individuals" for confirming infestation in fish sticks.
2) the methods they used for checking.
3) the prevalence of the infestation they found.
4) the criteria are they using, by which they they've unanimously reached the same verdict that ALL pollock is infested.
As for myself, I don't need to rely on outside sources for my information. Been there, done it. I know what I've seen with my own eyes. My argument therefore remains the same, the fish may have some occasional incidence of infestation BEFORE it reaches the factory, but since the factory diligently seeks to remove all parasites then th final product is not to considered any more "muchzak betolaim". (A far cry from your blanket assetion that ALL POLLOCK IS INFESTED).
I read an old article in the OK's Kosher Spirit Magazine about mashgiach temidi for tuna. They bring down Rav Henkin's psak that temidi is required and R' Moshe requiring every fish to be checked as a kosher species before gutting. They criticize themselves for being slow to listen to R' Moshe believe it or not but they save the biggest criticism for R' Hershel Schechter and the OU that he said you don't have to worry about non-kosher minim, yet you kept finding octopus and other things.
Who knew that hashgochos are into PR these days? "Mashgiach who Cares" sounds like the kashrus equivalent of a "Customer Care Representative". Did one of the hashgochos or fish companies hire McCann Erickson from Madison Ave to do a market study of which verter sound the most touchy-feely? I would have said Menachem Lubinsky's Lubicom but it doesn't sound aggressive enough to be his style.
5 Towns said...
Spotlight. I guess the grass ain't greener in the Five towns.
BTW Is the food at Taditions more filling? What do the Kids say? How about the Grebbitzin with the LANGEH Sheitel? Did you save some leftovers for REY?
This is getting interesting! Someones imagination is working overtime. I've been accused of being a shill from the Hisachdus. I've been called a fraud, fake, deceptive masgiach, and a fish monger. Now I've been hired to do PR for hashgachos! (I'm waiting to see the big bucks).
It happens to be that I'm none of the above. I'm just a plain real life independent mashgiach, and not running PR for anyone. That's not my current field of endeavor. However, since I do happen to be articulate in the English language, so rather than shooting off half baked comments that smear honest hard-working mashgichim, I try to use that skill for advancing "Kavod Shamayim" and setting the record straight.
It happens to be that I also have a lot of personal critique for what goes on in the so-called "kashrus world", which is why I appreciate what Reb Yudel is trying to do. However, my belief is that criticism needs to be backed up by hard facts. In the case on hand, and others (which I don't care to mention at this time) I'm sorry to say he has "dropped the ball".
When bashing someone, Reb Yudel, I need full transparency (written coherently) and need to hear the WHOLE story, like what you told them and what they responded to you, and why you disagree with them (you should know what I'm talking about...), and not just vague broad accusations.
And by the way, just to make life even more interesting, since everybody here seems to be either from the Queens Vaad (or their bashers), and have collectively highjacked this forum, I'd like to share with you the fact that I belong to neither of them ;)
Wed Jan 11, 08:51:00 PM 2012
It took a while but B"H Spotlight is coming around the corner. Maybe he'll even join Rabbeinu.
Afar lepumei
There will be plenty of that for Apikorsim who attack gedolim and Daas Torah h nivul peh (or non nivul peh).
"apikorsim who attack gedolim & Daas Torah"
You are so immature and misguided that you wouldn't know what Daas Torah was if it hit you in the face. You poshut can't be toifess that since the petirah of R' Moishe & R' Yaakov, the Agudah has gone steadily downhill and the real gedolei hador have either been in EY or if in America, outside what has become a joke political organization. R' Chaim Brisker bechochmoso predicted "sekretaren" would pull off a hijacking.
You are pretty good at attacking people from behind the anonymity that a blog provides you. So why don't you question the Agudah's controlling force Chaim Berlin as to why they are ignoring R' Moishe's beis din to pay the Carlebach mishpocho the money that's owed to them? Hypocrite.
The Agudah itself, even in it's current miserable state, excluded Belsky for a few years over the bittul kiddushin, but have taken him back this year with open arms along with his grovelling eved Neuhoff who was last seen before his Agudah convention presentation running a blog full of nivul peh, aless abee bashmutzen UOJ.
What happened to Daas Torah when so many gedolim came out against Belsky that a rov in Boro Park was able to make a sefer out of the sheer volume of teshuvos and tzettlach? "Hemshech yavoi"?
Hypocrite.
Your bleibing by a modern orthodox organization that you have to lie to cover up for is taking your hypocrisy to the next level.
I know why Napoleon was making all those nasty comments late yesterday afternoon. He's upset that the rov had a family simcha and he wasn't given a brucha by the chupah.
the nassi shidduch program put up a bounch of the 5 towns rabbonim be carfull dovid weinberger is on there who is a muchsak btoyloem.
Fri Jan 13, 01:08:00 AM 2012
WOW.
Spotlight looked in the mirror today.
The result was 'ah langeh pilpull shel hevel'.
"sekretaren" would..
Rabbeinu's 'sekrator' is Not available. Even if 'your rov' will be mesader kiddushin.
When C.S. is losing the argument, he resorts to disgusting tactics of dragging people's wives into it. And he has no substance to argue. He just offers stale cliches about looking in the mirror and other blather.
He is living a big lie. Liars who misrepresent kashrus will all come crashing down hard and big liars even harder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo
The Battle of Waterloo was fought on Sunday 18 June 1815 near Waterloo in present-day Belgium. An Imperial French army under the command of Emperor Napoleon was defeated by combined armies of the Seventh Coalition, an Anglo-Allied army under the command of the Duke of Wellington combined with a Prussian army. It was the culminating battle of the Waterloo Campaign and Napoleon's last. The defeat at Waterloo put an end to Napoleon's rule as Emperor of the French.
someone making the insults against his enemies veiber - it doesn't surprise me based on what i know about the guy who is probably doing it
If the Emperor comes crashing down at least he'll have a free plot (if REY agrees). But you, Spotlight, where are you going? Did you make arrangements (which excludes certain areas) yet?
If not for the wife 'volt men laane megaleh geven ver der groise lichtigeh knocker iz'.
Is the nori, the dark paper thin seaweed part of the sushi still a problem? I believe you had said that it needs to be checked for seahorses.
Are the ones with a hechsher also questionable?
Reb Yudel,
We learned in yeshiva, that silence is equivalent to admission.
I take your non-response to all my questions, as a statement that you have no answers to my questions.
Thank you.
Moral of the story, please have hard facts in your hand before you go on a smear campaign against kosher consumers, claiming that they're all eating INFESTED fish, and by default, defaming all the hard working mashgichim supervising these products.
You didn't hold back from bashmutzing Rabbi Dr. Asher Lipner by name. Oh, he's a bochur, right? What about you smearing Rabbi Eisen, Rabbi Wakslak and others by name. They have wives, donn't they?
So why haven't you attacked the Spotlight chevra by name on the blog? Don't tell us it's some groiser tzidkus on your part. The problem, ershtens, is you don't know who they all are. But we know you bashmutz even when you're not sure and you still run around doing it not on the blog. Nor vos? You are afraid of what some people will do to you personally and still have some "smart bombs" of major revelations to release against the Vaad. At least that much you've got right.
"I guess the grass ain't greener in the Five towns."
There are greedy and dishonest people everywhere, starting at the Queens Vaad office on 73rd Ave. And there are less stores under 5 Towns Vaad that charge tax on non-taxable items than under the Queens Vaad. There is even one shmoiger under the Queens Vaad who does not display any kind of price per weight breakdown and does not allow customers to see the readout on his scale. This is a violation of a NYC law intended to avoid precisely what your thief client does which is if you order the same thing every week, the price "magically" goes up. He doesn't even need to use his sticky thumb to weigh down the scale when no one can see it or get a price breakdown.
"BTW Is the food at Taditions more filling?"
Why don't you 'fess up as to how many freebies you have gotten at Queens Vaad accounts due to your title? Have any of those been "filling"?
Here is what I (Spotlight) want to say:
The Queens Vaad will only take a establishment under their wings if:
1. Must Cheat the customer.
2. Must Cheat the Government.
3. Must break all NYC rules.
4. Must have sticky fingers.
5. Must give freebbies to VHQ
Rabbonim &/or employees.
Thank you Chaimel for impersonating Spotlight yet again.
This time however, your impersonation was spot on considering the lousy record, as in violations, that Queens Vaad stores have on the website of the NYC Health Dept.
And shoynaymel the kashrus violations, so what is so shver that they are also cheating with weights & measures? Yes the Torah gives a frightening klolah, ober me redt vegen lowlives who you know are lowlives yet you continue to keep them on to collect your hefty $$$ fee.
Anyone with less than 100 IQ just needs to buy some take out food in one of these stores that are breaking the law by not giving a print out of price per pound or at least allowing the customer to view the readout on the scale.
Don't let the store fool you that they give a paper print out from an ancient calculator that is not connected to the scale and only spits out figures that the ganovim input themselves.
I just noticed this question:
Anonymous said...
Mashgiach,
Farmed salmon do not have anisakis and sea lice on the outside skin are large & easy to identify, so why are you using UV rays to check for parasites?
====================================
The answer is that the Chinese factories usually process frozen "wild caught" salmon, not farm raised. The fish are gutted and frozen on board the fishing boats, and processed at the factory.
The skin is usually removed, which takes care of the problem of sea lice, yet anisakis may remain, which they use UV lights to detect.
NOTE: The following information is correct. There are others attempting
to confuse the facts with their theories.
====================================
Reb Yudel,
Part of the misinformation you present is INCORRECT. All my comments are facts on the ground, based on first my personal first hand observation.
By the way, you still owe me answer to the questions I posed to you. If you don't have a coherent answer to the facts I presented so far, just say so.
Since you've never actually stepped foot in a pollock factory, then YOUR comments remain "theories", which YOU are trying to confuse the public with!
You know why Yudels claimed facts are correct? because they are the cold facts in the fish especially from China.
Masgiach, you spent too much time in china so you think & talk like them. We all know that the chinese will do anything to skimp on a half a cent includimg "Fooling the Mashgiachim", it's a special enjoyable project of them to fool the Westerners.
I wouldn't even beleive the Masgiach in China that it's pollock fish, they are known for using cheaper substitutes for everything under the sun.
Is there a mashgiach on the Chinese fishing trawlers to make sure they are not using the same knives for catfish?
Mr. Anonymous,
Based on what knowledge, are you asserting that Reb Yudel's facts are correct? Have you ever ONCE been to a Chinese pollock factory? Or are you just an "armchair kashrus expert" who gets his information from slanderous blogs? If you have facts to put on the table, then why don't you share them with the public in this forum?
No, I don't speak Chinese, but yes, I've spent a lot of time in China, which enables me to know how they think, and to be savvy when they're trying to pull a fast one on me. This makes me comfortable when I supervise a production, since I've seen a lot...
I'll repeat what I've stated before, that I'm well aware of the problem with the Chinese factories, and as an experienced mashgiach have put in elaborate safeguards to prevent kashrus fraud when the factory is under my watch.
There's very little that can be done to trick the mashgiach if he's on top of the situation at all times. If I supervised the production, and the label says "pollock", then you can be 100% sure it's pollock, AND that every fish was checked to make sure that's it's pollock. [When I need to step out, my assistant takes my place in checking the fish]. When the fish are being packed, a mashgiach makes sure that only our product is being packed in this packaging, and then sealed appropriately.
If you don't trust mashgichim as an "eid echad ne'eman be'issurim", or don't believe that a mashgiach actually was at the production, then I wish you well in preparing all your food from raw materials. For my part, you can eat no preprocessed food, bake your own bread and other baked goods, slaughter and salt your own meat, produce your own dairy products, and farm raise your own fish. [If you buy tilapia with a skin tag left on, then you're getting the best hechsher, from the Ribbono Shel Olam himself]. Ashrecha!
However, in the conditions we live in today, most consumers can't do all this themselves, which is where my mashgichim colleagues and I come in. You don't need to trust me for your kashrus. I couldn't care less what you choose to eat, or not to eat! But DON'T DARE to baselessly slander us, and cause people not to eat what they halachically are permitted to! Shame on you!
According to Spotlight rules he himself could never get a hech'sher from anybody. Er iz doch ain shtick avaryan mit the r'chilus un loshon horah that spews out of him.
And you believe that REY or any other godol or posek would bother with anything he touches or instigates?????
Anonymous Kosher consumer who cares said...
Is there a mashgiach on the Chinese fishing trawlers to make sure they are not using the same knives for catfish?
================================
Facts: Alaskan pollock arriving in Chinese factories are usually caught on Russian or Korean fishing boats. The are frozen on board, and brought intact to the factory (head off/gutted), where they are filleted.
Discussion:
Question: Do I think that while they were working with the pollock fish they were also simultaneously working with catfish?
Answer: No. This is because pollock fish swim in enormously large schools, and the bycatch (non-target species also caught in the nets) is reported to be only 1-2%. Due to the sheer numbers of fish being caught, I surmise that any bycatch is put on the side, and dealt with later, separately.
Question: Is there any concern that the fish were used with a knife that had been used with a non-kosher species?
Answer: No. All equipment is cleaned after each shift. "Duchka desakina" the pressure of the knife, which may causes absorption into the object being cut, is irrelevant in this case, as all cutting is being done with a clean knife, on cold objects, and there is no "davar charif" involved. (see Aruch Hashulchan YD 96:11).
[There are other arguments which can also be made why the knives are of no concern, but this is beyond the scope of this discussion].
The hypocrite "Napoleon" of VHQ is back for some nasty name calling and to varf around insults again. Why? Because someone said some TRUE, TOYELESSDIK lashon horah about someone he should not be giving hashgocho to.
He is no different than the lowlives protecting child molesters who purposely misapply hilchos lashon horah to perpetrate their avlos. Oh, never mind, he is tzuzamen with them too the way he tried to protect Bryks for so long until the newspapers forced change.
Rav Elyashev doesn't deal with stuff? His halacha teshuva sure does and former Attorney General Michael Mukasey (a shomer Shabbos Yid) ruled as a Federal judge that Bryks cannot sue anyone calling him a molester because there is plenty of raglayim ledavar before he ran away from Canada where he is still wanted for police questioning.
Even if the the Queens Vaad nut is correct, he should not be on this blog as the Rishonim learn that listening to lashon horah is worse than saying it.
Take a hike, tzedreiter.
Will the real Queens Vaad please stand up said
RELAX and take your pills.
"take your pills"
That is C.S. talking again. When people know dirty secrets about the Queens Vaad he will do anything in desperation to discredit them. And he has accused people in the past of being mentally ill, apikorsim, elterra bochurim with no life, etc.
Question.
A fisherman is busy gutting pollock and also pokes around inside a stray octopus or shark. He has mamashus on his knife and sticks it into a pollock. Who cares about no problem from dochaka when cold if actual unclean guts are being mixed in to pollock guts?
Anonymous said...
Question: A fisherman is busy gutting pollock and also pokes around inside a stray octopus or shark. He has mamashus on his knife and sticks it into a pollock. Who cares about no problem from dochaka when cold if actual unclean guts are being mixed in to pollock guts?
==========================
Mashgiach's answer:
I must preface my answer by stating that I’ve never been on a commercial fishing boat. I’ve only seen the fish as they are brought to the factory. However based on the condition of the fish as I’ve seen them, and combined with my research, all this indicate to me that there is no concern whatsoever.
If the reality of fish processing would be as you seem to imagine it to be, a big “mish-mash” of kosher and non-kosher fish lying around, and the fishermen processing the fish, chopping them up and poking their knives wherever they happen to go, then your question would be valid. Since I wasn't fully clear last time when describing the condition of the fish when arrive at the factory, this may have contributed to this confusion.
The reality is that when the mashgiach sees the fish, he sees a whole fish, skin intact, minus its head. Even the fish’s belly also looks intact. Closer examination will reveal that the gut cavity is empty. So for one, the workers on the boat haven’t been chopping up the fish, they’re only going for the guts. However, even when going for the guts, my feeling is that this is done manually. This is based on that I’ve an occasional fish arriving at the factory with the guts still inside. The workers just take it in stride, and with a little tweak of their index finger poke out the gut. This indicates to me that gutting pollock fish isn’t a process that mandates a knife to be used, it can be done manually. Therefore, since doing it manually seems to me to be quicker, and there is also less possibility of damaging the fish, then my guess is that it is probably always done manually.
You ask if actual unclean guts are perhaps being mixed in to pollock guts? The answer is that the guts aren’t even reaching the factory! The idea is to remove them from the fish before their frozen on the boat and transferred to the factory customer. They don’t come near the fish that the consumer ends up with!
(continued below)
continued:
The only place that the fish appears to have any "duchka desakina", is at the place of the incision, where the head is removed.
I mentioned previously that pollock fish swim in enormously large schools. The sheer numbers of fish being caught in each net is literally 10’s of thousands of fish per catch. All these re waiting to have their heads removed. However there is an issue with “bycatch” (non-target species also caught in the nets). These other fish need to be removed from the catch, since they don’t want them getting mixed in with the target species. Since there are 10’s of thousands of fish that need to have their heads removed, and they also don’t want the fish to get mixed up, I therefore surmise that any minimal bycatch (reported to be only 1-2%) is put on the side, and dealt with later, separately.
I note, importantly, that we are also dealing with an unknown of what the pollock bycatch is composed of. They may very well be also be of a kosher species! In fact, one source writes “The *majority* of the bycatch consists of undersized pollock, and king and chinook salmon”. For those uneducated about kosher fish species, king and chinook salmon are kosher species.
So it appears that we have here a ספק ספיקא, and therefore have no expectations of mamashus of treif fish on the knife used to behead the fish.
ספק אם בכלל היו דגים אחרים שהם ממין טמא בין הדגים הכשרים, אם לאו. ואפילו אם תמצא לומר שהיו שם דגים טמאים, שמא לא חתכו אותם ממש בזה אחר זה, אלא חתכו אותם אחר כך בנפרד. והיא גם ספק ספיקא המתהפכת. ספק אם חתכו אותם ממש בזה אחר זה, או שמא רק חתכו אותם אח"כ בנפרד. ואפילו אם תמצא לומר שחתכו הדגים האחרים ממש בזה אחר זה, שמא לא היו ביניהם דגים טמאים.
עוד נראה להוסיף בזה, דדגים הללו עוברים שטיפה והדחה מעולה, ולענ"ד אינם נחשבים שיש בהם "שמנונית". גם ראיתי בהרבה מקומות, שאחרי כל השטיפות וההדחות הם חותכים קליפה דקה ממקום החתך הנ"ל, כדי שחתיכת תצא בצורה ישרה ויפה. אשר מכל דברינו בס"ד נראה ברור שאין שום חשש כשרות בדגים הללו.
I will just conclude that this entire discussion about treif fish contamination is a distracting smokescreen from the fundamental discussion which I’ve been raising here, refuting Reb Yudel’s slanderous assertion that all Pollock fish reaching the consumer is infested. I again challenge him to produce hard facts to back up his claims, instead of a lame statement: “We had some additional individuals check on the current situation re: worm checking in China & Pollock fish...the facts remain that they are still infested when the consumer receives it”. I asked very good hard questions on that statement, and the public deserves good answers!
We’re waiting Reb Yudel…
@Masgiach Who cares:
You've stated that you don't know of any that make minced fish sticks.
Here's a product being sold in frum Lakewood supermarkets
Dr. Praeger's Minced Fish Sticks
Here's another minced fish stick product:
Kineret Kosherific Minced Fish Sticks
"I’ve never been on a commercial fishing boat"
So your "research" is valid but R' Yudel's not? Interesting.
"they’re only going for the guts"
How does that preclude a huge, razor sharp knife from contaminating anything else. I guess they must sit there daintily to slooooowly gut each fish.
"The workers just take it in stride, and with a little tweak of their index finger poke out the gut. This indicates to me that gutting pollock fish isn’t a process that mandates a knife to be used, it can be done manually."
I don't think you have ANY idea what you are talking about. I have gutted many small pan fish like lake bass, small muskies etc. You absolutely cannot do it without a knife unless you are strong as Superman and are wearing Kevlar gloves so that you don't get pricked by fins. And you think any schmo can just flick open large ocean fish, easier than opening a can of Coke?
"my guess is that it is probably always done manually"
Noch a mol, why are you the only one who has the luxury of guessing?
"I therefore surmise that any minimal bycatch (reported to be only 1-2%) is put on the side, and dealt with later, separately"
Ah, gevaldig! Another fancy word for guesswork. Don't be so quick to assume things. You don't think that fishermen pulling in some non-kosher delicacy wouldn't want to gut it on the spot for dinner? Why put it off to the side davka? And where do you get your statistics of at most 2% non-kosher?
"So it appears that we have here a ספק ספיקא"
Are you a posek?
I must say that R' Yudel having people check for him sounds a lot more substantive than all your conjecture and admitted aniyas daas.
By the way, R' Dovid Feinstein says his father used to spot examine fish he was eating all the time and pick out what looked like worms.
R' Yudel, I am obviously skeptical of what our caring mashgiach (who has a way with words) writes. I think this should go back to the top of the posts to allow him to provide some real answers.
Thank you “Consumer Who Cares” for your thoughtful question, which indicates your care and concern. A thank you is also due for doing the research that actually confirms what I’ve been writing about.
Let’s review. Reb Yudel writes: “Sushi, Fish Sticks… all use minced (not ground) Pollock fish which is infested”.
The implication of that statement is, regardless of what the label states, it’s ALWAYS minced.
My statements were to the effect that I produced Pollock blocks from WHOLE FILLETS, which I know were to be used for making breaded fish sticks and breaded fish portions. These fillets were all checked for parasites, and are NOT considered “muchzak betolaim”. (I don’t have current information on minced Pollock production).
You have kindly provided us the information that Dr. Praeger’s produces “Minced Fish Sticks”. This is clearly stated on the label. However you seem to have forgotten to check the other “FISH STICK” products in their line:
http://www.drpraegers.com/Fish-C64.aspx
which state explicitly on their packaging that they’re made from fish “FILLETS”.
The same is with Kosherific/Kineret. The link you referred to explicitly states “minced”.
So we have here two fish companies that clearly identify to the consumer what their product is made of.
So I’ll agree with you, that if it says that it’s made from minced pollock then it’s made from minced fish. But you will also need to agree with me that there is such a thing as fish sticks are made from fillets. This is NOT what Reb Yudel has stated.
We’ve now shown explicitly that lumping all “fish sticks” into the same category is erroneous at best, and slanderous at worst. It seems to me that he really dropped the ball on this one; neglecting to even read a simple ingredient label on the packaging!
So thank you again “Consumer”, for proving my point against Reb Yudel’s untrue statement.
The comment about minced was questioning the mashgiach's lack of knowledge, yet the spin doctor mashgiach turns it inside out and constructs it as a criticism of R' Yudel.
A mashgiach? Who cares!
Since there is no person in the world who knows everything, a person needs to focus on what he does know about. Indeed, Chazal (Derch Eretz Zuta 3, cited in Berachos 4a) have advised us: למד לשונך לומר איני יודע שמא תתבדה ותאחז, and I have neglected to internalize their advice in choosing my words.
On Monday, Jan 09, I wrote “And finally, to my knowledge, NO company produces fish sticks from "minced" OR "ground" Pollock”.
While I prefaced my words with the statement “to my knowledge”, which indicates the limitations of the statement, I now realize that the language suggested a certain presumptuousness on my part. I therefore publicly admit that I have since learned that I was incorrect about this fact, and there are actually fish sticks made from minced pollock. I hereby apologize for any misunderstanding that my statement may have caused.
Notwithstanding the advice of the “Derch Eretz Zuta” mentioned above, a mashgiach needs to stand behind his work and take responsibility for his actions. This sense of responsibility gives me the impetus to point out the inaccuracies that are being spread about my work, and that of my colleagues (cf. Tosfos Kedushin 30a, s.v. Al Tigamgem).
Producing pollock fish for use in making breaded fish sticks and breaded fish portions, is one of the things I do happen to know a lot about. This is based on my first hand experience.
I'm therefore pleased to have also learned that there are fish companies that explicitly write on their packaging that their fish sticks are made from fillets. This is something that Reb Yudel evidently either hasn’t seen or heard of yet, or doesn’t believe to be true. My message to him remains the same as the one to myself: “Since there is no person in the world who knows everything, a person needs to focus on what he does know about”. I hereby challenge him to publicly admit his error.
Response to: :Just the facts, man”.
“So your "research" is valid but R' Yudel's not? Interesting”.
I attempt to be transparent in telling you exactly what is based on first-hand experience, research, or conjecture. Has R. Yudel done the same in this case? He’s still hiding behind various shills, and will not publicly elaborate on or defend any of his allegations.
I don’t know what type of fish you were dealing with, and the methods you attempted with them. I can only describe to you the fish as I’ve seen them: head off, stomach cavity intact, and guts out. My intuition about the methodology used in processing fish, is based on other various experiences while supervising various productions, which I don’t care to elaborate upon at this point.
“And where do you get your statistics of at most 2% non-kosher”?
Simple internet research will lead you to these numbers. They will also lead you to sources which describe how Alaskan Pollock is fished and processed, and will also tell you what the majority of the bycatch is composed of. Hint: I deliberately left a clue for the uninitiated reader by providing a direct quote from one of the sources. Check it out.
"So it appears that we have here a ספק ספיקא". Are you a posek”?
I have outlined a reasonable halachic explanation why there is no need for concern. The explanation stands firmly on its own, without the need for invoking my credentials. Coloring my argument by playing the “posek card” does not add anything of value to the halachic discussion. If you have any relevant questions on the validity of the proposed ספק ספיקא, or on the other points in the heter, I’ll be happy to try to answer them. If, at the end of the day, you seriously think that any gutted fish coming off a non-Jewish boat has any serious kashrus issues, you can please let Reb Yudel know, so that he can raise the hottest new tumult in the kashrus world…
(continued)
“I must say that R' Yudel having people check for him sounds a lot more substantive than all your conjecture and admitted aniyas daas”.
You are confusing two discussions here. Specifically, the discussion about what happens on the boat, and the discussion on what happens in the factory. When I write what happens in the factory, it’s from first-hand experience and not conjecture.
I have no problem with R' Yudel having people check for him. In fact I would even encourage it! Since no person can be in all places at all times, it would therefore be a huge benefit to the public if R. Yudel would accurately share with us the various findings of other mashgichim.
However, I do have an issue with a lack of clarity behind his statements. Shooting off his cannon with poorly worded broad accusations is hardly a way to earn respect from the educated reader. Additionally, Chazal (Eruvin 13b) explain why Beis Hillel merited that the halacha be established like their position. Among the reasons listed there, is that they mentioned other peoples positions, and they even gave precedence in mentioning the positions of those they argued on. [see Maharal (Nesivos Olam, Nesiv HaKaas, 1) for a beautiful explanation of this maamar Chazal]. In the courtroom of public opinion, full transparency carries over much better. When trying to convince the public of a certain idea, the whole story needs to be told. What R. Yudel told them (those that he’s writing against), what they responded to him, and why he disagrees with them.
And finally, why does Reb Yudel need a shill to answer for him? If he makes a statement, he should take responsibility for it, by standing up and personally defending it. This is the format of civil intelligent dialogue. He claims that he had people check this out for him. Why can’t he answer the basic questions that I asked above? (For his benefit I’ll repost them here):
Can you also kindly please share with us the following:
1) The qualifications and expertise of these "individuals" for confirming infestation in fish sticks.
2) The methods they used for checking.
3) The prevalence of the infestation they found.
4) The criteria are they using, by which they they've unanimously reached the same verdict that ALL pollock is infested.
(continued)
“By the way, R' Dovid Feinstein says his father used to spot examine fish he was eating all the time and pick out what looked like worms”.
I fail to understand the point of mentioning this alleged anecdote, since halachically there’s little value in such anecdotal “evidence” [see Bava Basra (130b): ת״ר אין למדין הלכה לא מפי תלמוד ולא מפי מעשה וכו']. Even of the story were true, there are also many unknown factors in this story,to make it of any benefit. Was this an instruction that R. Moshe conveyed to R. Dovid to spread to the public? Which species of fish was this referring to? Did R. Moshe mean with this to contradict something that he himself wrote (in his Iggros Moshe)? Is it possible that he actually held that these worms were permissible, but he was still so repulsed by the thought of eating them that he picked them out (cf. Chullin 67b with Ravina and his mother)?
In any event, you seem to totally have missed the fact that my comments above stand on their own merit. I emphasize, that this discussion has zero involvement in the actual debate regarding the permissibility of ingesting the anisakis worm. I argue, that even those who choose to be stringent in this matter, are halachically permitted to consume filleted pollock fish products, since after they have been checked in the factory for parasites they do not have the status of “muchzak betolaim”. If any reader thinks that this position is incorrect, I hereby challenge him to coherently explain why this is so.
“R' Yudel, I am obviously skeptical of what our caring mashgiach (who has a way with words) writes”.
As always, I encourage every kosher consumer to do his own due diligence. You’re entitled to be skeptical of me, since you don’t know me or my qualifications. But anyway, thanks for the compliment. In my opinion, there’s no valid reason, why anyone who was educated in the United States, shouldn’t be able to express themselves intelligently in the English language.
"I don’t know what type of fish you were dealing with, and the methods you attempted with them"
Actually, I named the species of fish. I used the type of knife that fishermen would typically use when gutting them. My point was that it is no simple task to give a little flick with the finger as you put it. I think you are downplaying things considering that large ocean fish are even more difficult to handle, which should be obvious to anyone.
"I can only describe to you the fish as I’ve seen them: head off, stomach cavity intact, and guts out. My intuition about the methodology used in processing fish, is based on other various experiences while supervising various productions"
Even if you worked with a species that has a soft underbelly that I am not aware of, gutting is a very messy and unpleasant process.
I will try to further investigate the non-kosher percentages and various sfeikos.
Are you trying to be funny about concerns on a boat? Surely you know that there are hashgochos that require a mashgiach on the boat, a decision they made without R' Yudel's input.
"Why can’t he answer the basic questions that I asked above?"
No one likes it when he is sparing with the details. But I understand that it is sometimes not easy to fully disclose given the retaliatory nature of many hashgochos and processors out there. Need I invoke Rubashkin and his surrogates?
"Did R. Moshe mean with this to contradict something that he himself wrote (in his Iggros Moshe)?"
R' Dovid is accessible by telephone and in person on the Lower East Side. You can ask him yourself as rabbonim who I know did.
"I argue, that even those who choose to be stringent in this matter, are halachically permitted to consume filleted pollock fish products, since after they have been checked in the factory for parasites they do not have the status of “muchzak betolaim”"
As we know R' Yudel is prone to take people on making such claims on fruits, vegetables & fish. Sometimes he is right on the money like when it comes to hashgocho stickers on romaine bags. Sometimes I think he is being a little too machmir like with Bodek iceberg lettuce.
I have an idea. If the pollock fillets you check are such a novel concept of being mutter l'achila, why not approach any one of the machmirim on anisakis and make your case. If you are so certain, surely they will side with you and spread the word through their network that there is permissible pollock to be had. There is Chevra Mehadrin of Vizhnitz, the rov in LA (Bess was it?), etc
Response to “Just the facts, man”:
Since my comments about what actually happens on a fishing boat remain conjecture, as such they have little value in a halachic discussion. I therefore do not plan to respond any more on the subject, unless I have first hand information.
In any event, I’ve outlined a possible “heter” to explain the possible position of those who don’t concern themselves with the potential problem. I also now add, that although I didn’t mention it previously, I feel that the basic argument also applies the any possible מקום החתך which may also happen during gutting.
“Are you trying to be funny about concerns on a boat? Surely you know that there are hashgochos that require a mashgiach on the boat, a decision they made without R' Yudel's input”.
I’m not trying to be funny. As I previously mentioned, the fish I’ve supervised didn’t even come from Chinese fishing boats. The origin countries that I recall, are Russia, Korea, and USA. My supervision begins with checking the fish for simanei kashrus, as they are shipped to the factories. I must say that I’ve provided supervision services to a broad sampling of the generally accepted kashrus organizations, and they all have never concerned themselves with this issue. Evidently, they all agree that this is of little concern. This gives me additional confirmation that my proposed “heter” is likely on the right track.
Since I’ve never heard of this "requirement" before, I’m therefore quite curious to hear the names of hashgachos that actually require a mashgiach to be on the boat to supervise the gutting of the fish. This should be public knowledge, and something that they should be proud about. Would you happen to know any names that you can share with me, or is this just urban legend? One more question, is this requirement of also having a mashgiach on the boat, applicable for all fish productions that are processed even on land, or is it only required in the case when the fish are being processed beginning to end on the boat itself? Remember, that the factories I’ve supervised are on land.
(continued)
“No one likes it when he is sparing with the details. But I understand that it is sometimes not easy to fully disclose given the retaliatory nature of many hashgochos and processors out there”.
The nature of the matter is so, that in the courtroom of public opinion, the more facts and details that are put on the table, all these leave the reader with a much more convincing conclusion. The reader of today is jaded and cynical of all the various kashrus claims made, pro and con. Being sparing with the details when that’s precisely what the consumer needs to make an informed decision, just doesn’t make the grade. Very few people today can expect to be relied upon blindly, with closed eyes. The so-called whistleblower that doesn’t provide details, is just regarded as a muckraker, and more often than not makes a laughingstock out of himself.
First of all, I pointed out that he simply has a basic fact WRONG, when he claims that ALL fish sticks are made from minced fish, when I provided links that show otherwise. Let him be a man and get off his high horse and admit a mistake when he made one.
Additionally, despite the retaliatory nature of many hashgochos and processors out there, I see no legitimate reason for providing the information I ask for in this case. Broad allegations have been made, which affects every single company that produces Pollock fish products. They obviously aren’t too happy about what’s been written about them. Adding details to support the allegation would not add any more malice to the already charged situation.
The information I requested has no bearing on the job security of any mashgiach. I merely asked simple questions as to what he’s basing his allegations on. Is it based on personal research? Is it based on research of others in the field? Is it based on something he read in XYZ Torah journal? Ignoring basic questions like these doesn’t sit well with the intelligent reader.
The alleged presence of parasites in fish is an objective fact, having nothing to with a particular mashgiach. Who did the investigation, and what are their qualifications for determining infestation? Are they independent researchers, or are they connected with a competing fish company or competing kashrus organization (follow the $$$)? Which species were investigated? Which brands were used in the investigation? What were the methods were used for this investigation? Can these results be duplicated? Random lot sampling (even of the same type, not all products are produced in the same factory)? Sampling size? Statistical results? Did all the samples have the same processing methods? Most of the above factors stand on their own merit, and can be confirmed independently without jeopardizing anyone.
When we finish discussing pollock fillets, I’ll continue to flounder fillets, which are thinner than Pollock fillets, and even easier to check! And they are checked…
When we get done with that, I’ll go on to discuss the allegation that minced fish is prohibited to be eaten. Is it checked before it is minced? How many times is it minced before it’s packed? How did the so-called “investigators” determine that there is still a בריה שלימה in the mixture?
(continued)
“R' Dovid is accessible by telephone and in person on the Lower East Side. You can ask him yourself as rabbonim who I know did”.
I have no interest in pursuing here the subject of what gadol X or Y holds about the anisakis issue. For now, I’ve conveniently sidestepped the entire issue, since I argue that it’s irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The questions I asked on your alleged story, were simply for your own edification and to suggest guidance to you when invoking stories from gedolim. In order for such stories to be of any serious value, all the details must be known and provided. I also added, that even in the best case scenario, the gemara in Bava Basra (which I quoted) seriously qualifies the usage of such a story as being definitive in halacha.
“If the pollock fillets you check are such a novel concept of being mutter l'achila, why not approach any one of the machmirim on anisakis and make your case…”.
I don’t think that my approach is novel at all, and I have the implied backing of all the talmidei chachamim who stand behind the kashrus organizations that have availed themselves of my services. Since I’m not paid by the kashrus organizations to be their spokesman, I therefore don’t see the need to make their case on their behalf. I only need to worry about my own responsibility, and I think that I’ve made a conscientious effort to act in a responsible manner.
“If you are so certain, surely they will side with you and spread the word through their network that there is permissible pollock to be had”.
I see no benefit in attempting to lead a crusade, and have no emotional need in getting validation from those quarters. I’m quite comfortable where I stand now. The reason I’ve made a time consuming effort of discussing the issue on this forum, is due to my sense of responsibility, and my desire to learn the truth. I have no problem admitting when I’m shown to be wrong, but I don’t take things lightly. If you have an argument against what I say, it had better be a good one. And finally, when I come across slanderous comments that I have first hand information to know that they are untrue, I feel the need to make a מחאה, and to protest the injustice. My writing is to be considered my מחאה.
In halacha there’s a general rule: המוציא מחבירו עליו הראיה. The burden of proof lies on the plaintiff. The status quo is such, that there are many kashrus organizations, led by respected rabbonim, that certify these products. Anyone having claims against the status quo, and seeks to undermine their “chezkas kashrus”, needs to present proof to support their claim (yes, even R. Yudel Shain). He can choose any venue he likes, but must make it available for public scrutiny. As of today, I have yet to see anything significant from any of the so-called “machmirim”, that should make me question the validity of my position. If anyone out there knows of any publicly available sources that refute my argument, I challenge them to post it here, or to send it to: mashgiachwhocares@gmail.com.
Post a Comment