Tuesday, September 02, 2014

Update: Re: 5 Towns- We aren't talking about mehadrin v. non-mehadrin. "Basic kashrus"

Re: 5 Towns restaurants and other food service establishments.

In general their restaurants, caterers, take-out etc don't have qualified individuals for checking & cleaning fruits and vegetables from infestation. Therefore Refrain from the fruits & vegetables that require Bedikas toliyim. 
The Vaad Hakashrus claims that, The Modern Orthodox Rabbis don't give them a free hand in having a proper standard.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OVWZVlqRo

Gourmet Glatt and Season's do have properly trained mashgichim [in spite being a 5 Town establishment], but the other establishments don't have properly trained mashgichim.

Why is the Administrator  busy doing consultant work for other agencies, doing private hashgochas, giving speeches, writing misleading guides and misleading articles for the consumer in checking vegetables. The 5 Towns Vaad doesn't compensate him sufficiently?

The 5 Towns Kashrus Administrator was offered $1,000.00 to a Zedakah of his choice, if the Administrator is willing to be tested hands on on Bedikas-Toloyim- He did not accept the challenge- Raboisai,  because does not know Bedikas toloyim.

He is a good orator, SO?


Anonymous said...

I am sure you are aware of the new Mehadrin list. After all, you seem to know so much about the Five Towns!

I am not referring to the joke list a Rov put out a while back. I am referring to a new list put out by a very prominent Rov, one who's English halacha seforim are followed by all.

There is not a whole lot of stuff on the list yet. But he is powerful enough that some establishments have already made improvements in order to get on his list.

Anonymous said...

The reason for the list is because the Vaad Hakashrus is not a reliable Hashgocha.

The Mashgichim don't know proper bedikas toloyim. The mashgichim are not properly trained, why? The Administrator doesn't either know it hands on. He's a great orator, but that's where starts and ends.

Anonymous said...

CS said...
Just because you don't like a psak halacha, you feel that it is necessary to bash it?
The chait (if there is one) is on the heads of the rabbanim from the 5 towns. You are guilty of lashon hara, which is much worse.

What does the youtube video have to do with anything? You showed a bunch of insects. So what? Were these on a piece of food that was inspected by the 5T mashgichim?

Anonymous said...

Gourmet glatt got the best masgiach in town

Anonymous said...

R' Yudel, Let me preface my comment by stating that ordinarily I agree with your position on many issues, in particular your refusal to be mishtachaveh to the local powebrokers and mafia. I do however take issue with your obsession with the 5 towns and its vaad. Respectfully, have you ever been to the 5 Towns. Have you ever visited the offices of the Vaad or any of its food establishments that you regularly disparage? Additionally, the 5 towns is 90 miles away from your center of gravity geographically, and thousands of miles philosophically. You have to "pass by" many hashgochos on the road from Lakewood to the 5 Towns that are suspect, to be kind. Do you drive by Teaneck , with its voluminous amount of food establishments? When was the last time you saw a jew of any denomination working behind the counter in many of those eateries? Yet there is nary a word from you about Teaneck. Why? Likely because it is out of your wheelhouse. Well Yudel, so is the 5 Towns.
Lastly, there are some serious Talmidei Chachamim on the 5 Towns Vaad. Have you met R' Moshe Brown? R' Naftali Jaeger? R' Eitan Feiner? Ok, let the comments begin.

Anonymous said...

First of all, Reb Yudel has been there on numerous occassions.
Second, Yudel receives very reliable info even when he isn't there.
Over the last (I don't know how many years) he was "always" right on target. e.g. Finkel, Rubashkin, etc

Yudel was publicizing weinberger for 2 years till the 5 Town / Rockaway Rabbis woke up from the their slumber.

They only listen to him when they get burned.

The 5 Towns Vaad hashgocha has some major problems "no-one is home".

Rockaway kashrus will have to break away from the 5 Towns.

The 5 towns Vaad is being farkoift with Obama style stories- and they even believe it.

You ever heard the saying "chazer fisel kusher", the Adminisrator will demonstrate a few frum shtiklich and have them sold.

Anonymous said...

Why is a Local Rabbi creating a "list" of approved eateries, because the Vaad of 5 Towns is unreliable.

Time for a new administration at the Vaads kashrus. He has time to do paid consulting for other kashrus Organizations, he has time to give his own private hashgochas, etc. But he has no time to learn the hands on to run a kashrus Organization-Talk is cheap.

Anonymous said...

The % Towns administrator is a paid consultant for other agencies. He tried doing a lynching on Rabbi Gornish a few years ago. He called a meeting by Reb Dovid Cohen. Present were Rabbi Gornish, Rabbi Feivel Cohen, Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Shain, Rabbi Adler from Kehila.

Rabbi eisen said he has pages & pages of complaints on Rabbi Gornish's hashgocha. It turned out that he presented less than a handfull. Every one was proven not true.
One thing came out of the meeting was, when drop offs are made it should be at least 1 1/2 hours before shabbos. THAT WAS IT. Rabbi Eisen was trying to lynch Rabbi Gornish, that no shul should allow his hashgocha and they should use only "KEHILA" hashgocha.

Anonymous said...

In order to cast away the responsibility of the kashrus foul-up from Kehila kashrus.

The Rabbi lynched by banning Westside (the only kosher certified distributor)from making any deliveries to establishments he has at least some input.

5 Towns said...

Stop blaming Rav Eisen when the shul rabbis are the problem - the ONLY problem.

Many of the commentators here are either lying or have no idea what they are saying, for example the ridiculous claim that some roshei yeshiva are on the Vaad.

It is true by the way that Rav Eisen is not properly compensated. The shul rabbis only care about their own lawyer-level salaries and not getting modern orthodox fressers upset with any lifestyle-crimping hilchos kashrus.

Rav Eisen has volumes on Gornish going back decades. Many of the Gornish fiascos were resolved eventually due to tremendous pressure on Gornish from countless other rabbonim, including when KIC FORCED Gornish to SIGN that he can no longer take restaurants kicked out by other hashgochos for kashrus violations (which he didn't even bother to speak to the previous hashgocho regarding what the violations were)

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Eisen is not being held back by any of the local Rabonim at all. He's just using it as a cover for his incomptency. He never worked himself on bedikas of insects. Sure he could talk about it including all of the methods that don't work in checking.

He could write instructions about food service which are not in line of facts on the ground.

All of his complaints re: Rabbi Gornish ammounted to absolutely a farce and a method of him taking over more hashgochas for his Kehila hashgocha.

The Star-k is the big one taking over hashgochas that others drop.

Sure he has all the frum lingo to fool everyone that he's knowledgeable and not a kal as well.

Anonymous said...

1. The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Anonymous said...

Chazon Ish(2:133):Knowledge about a talmid chachom who shapes yiddishkeit is similar to that of an artisan.

Just as one is permitted to convey accurate information about an artisan if there is to'eles so it it permitted to reveal information about a gadol if there is to'eles. Of critical importance is to be totally accurate otherwise it is slander.

This implies that expressing negative information about others is relevant for those who are considered influential authorities – in order to understand the degree to rely or not rely on them.

Anonymous said...

"Kashrus today by some certifiers & their administrators is power and money.

And unfortunately, it's extremely competitive.

Instead of people working together to improve kashrus, everybody tries to get business away from the other one."

Anonymous said...

Isn't it time in the 5 Towns to compile a "list of approved" kashrus wise for the discriminating kosher consumer?

Sure, there is a list- but no one is on it to be approved.

Is it the Rabbis fault or the Administration of the kashrus vaad?
It may not be their fault, but sure is their problem.

5 Towns said...

"Rabbi Eisen is not being held back by any of the local Rabonim at all. He's just using it as a cover for his incomptency."

Anyone who knows what's going on in the 5 Towns knows the above is mamash sheker vechozov. As if the moderner shul rabbis like Kenny Hain (who brings Conservative cantors to sing in Beth Shalom) are really interested in Torahdik kashrus standards! Not!

"He never worked himself on bedikas of insects."

If you are going to make up this garbage as you go along, at least make it sound SOMEWHAT believable. Rav Eisen was a shem davar at the OU and after leaving the OU was the first organizational figure in America to call out infestation of romaine - 18 MONTHS before hashgochos regrouped over the problem. He gave a a seminar open to the public on this in Flatbush and the jam packed crowd can testify to this affect.

"He could write instructions about food service which are not in line of facts on the ground."

Do you have any specifics or are you doing the same thing to him what you (falsely) accuse him of doing to Gornish?

"All of his complaints re: Rabbi Gornish ammounted to absolutely a farce and a method of him taking over more hashgochas for his Kehila hashgocha."

What is absolute is the voluminous proofs that many, many rabbonim including Rav Eisen have against Gornish. Gornish pays peanuts for mashgichim which is why many of them are unreliable. There are many documented cases of Gornish taking on clients who are not shomer SHabbos even though it is officially against his policy. What do you think happens when the useless mashgiach is a no-show or just sitting twiddling his thumbs at such places? The "best" story with Gornish was the TREIF shawarma joint on Ave M where he pretended to be a hero for "discovering" the treif after everyone was nichshol for so long. In the words of one furious rosh kollel, where was our "hero" until now? How many ate treif for so long before he finally woke up?

"The Star-k is the big one taking over hashgochas that others drop."

That is only now and only because KIC forced Gornish & Babad under threat of pirsum to SIGN that they will stop.

"Sure he has all the frum lingo to fool everyone that he's knowledgeable and not a kal as well."

It is known that Rav Eisen, when asked, does not defend the watered down & forcibly imposed standards of the faker shul rabbis in the 5 Towns.

How does Rav Shain allow these blatant lies to be posted that do not contain a shred of truth regarding 5 Towns & FLatbush kashrus?

Yudel Shain said...

We will review the previous comments.

Yudel Shain said...

You say "Rav Eisen was a shem dovor in infestation". Sure when the ones at the Ou & others knew absolutely nothing about infestation, Rabbi Eisen sounded as if he knew something.

The Kehila episodes with their kashrus were covered up by Rabbi Eisen. One of the underhanded methods to cover for Kehila, was for Rabbi Eisen to ban WestSide from distributing. Rabbi Eisen even got the Lakewood KCL to go allong with that ban on Westside. Westside is an innocent culprit of Rabbi Eisen.

Rabbi Brown was present at the meeting with Rabbi Dovid Cohen "kehila". I was there, Rabbi Feivel Cohen, Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Eisen, Rabbi Adler.

Almost all of Rabbi Eisen's volumes of episodes on Rabbi Gornish were proven to be baseless.

I would be willing to challenge Rabbi Eisen to a test on bedikas Toloyim at the Postive lab. If he indeed knows bedikas toloyim I will donate $1,000.00 to a Tzedakah of Rabbi Eisen's choice.

This offer is valid for the next 14 days.

Anonymous said...

ומוכח שהכל כדאי, כדי לקרע את מסך הצביעות, ולהסיר את המסוה. לגלות את... המסתתר מאחורי הטלפים הפשוטות ומאחז עיני הבריות לומר "טהור אני" . וד"ל

I & others from Metro NY area are familiar with these type of people portraying themselves as overly frum "holier than thou", yet it's all a farce.

I and others are very much aware of the truth of the administrator of the 5 towns. We have seen first hand the 5 town kashrus.

If he's too frum for the Rabbis, he should leave. He's being machshil the people "bi'maizid".

Yudel Shain said...

I will at the same time submit myself to a test of bedikas toloiyim.

Yudel Shain said...

Did you see the disastrous misleading "Guide for the home in checking for insects" that The Vaad & Rabbi Eisen were going to publish?

What a Michshoil it would have been.

Did you see the CD's of the OU (Jan, 2013? It was done by none other than the Vaads Administrator- Disaster is putting it mildly.

5 Towns said...

Horav Shain,

I am only interested in the truth. I am defending Rav Eisen because of various details that I know firsthand.

I have to admit that there is something funny going on in the machlokes he has with Flatbush Vaad, and I don't know which of their opposing accounts is a lie, but here is what I do know.

"Sure when the ones at the Ou & others knew absolutely nothing about infestation, Rabbi Eisen sounded as if he knew something."

I was at the assifah in Flatbush where Rav Eisen sounded the alarm against romaine a full 18 months before other hashgochos took action. At that time at least before the shul rabbis stopped it, the 5 Towns Vaad mashgichim were checking each leaf both sides with a light box (leaf miners were not yet known by anyone then). At the same assifah, Rav Eisen railed against hashgochos using raspberries (which he called the avi avos hainfestation) & blackberries. At that time at least, the 5 Towns Vaad did not allow the berries. Rav Eisen railed that hashgochos are not properly straining jams & preserves for insects. He advised speaking to Rav Beck who is a mumche from supervising the largest canner in America and then demanding answers from the other hashgochos. One day the faker shul rabbis did a hold up on Rav Eisen, forcing him to sign papers he will be fired if he is more machmir than OU. Rav Rominek who is a talmid chochem & zokken muflag went to the gedolei Eretz Yisroel about this explaining to them how besides the modern orthodox rabbis, these "yeshivish" fakers who come to have photo-ops with them to show off to their mispalelim are forcing a downgrade of kashrus.

"The Kehila episodes with their kashrus were covered up by Rabbi Eisen."

If you are referring to the Ave J scandal, it was primarily Scheinerman & others who covered it up. Rav Eisen was a new face who had just been onboarded at that time as an outside consultant. He mistam has much more power there now.

"One of the underhanded methods to cover for Kehila, was for Rabbi Eisen to ban WestSide from distributing. Rabbi Eisen even got the Lakewood KCL to go allong with that ban on Westside. Westside is an innocent culprit of Rabbi Eisen."

So are you saying that when you ourself came out against Westside it was as a result of propaganda that you were taken in by?

"Rabbi Brown was present at the meeting"

Rav Brown is a shul rabbi (Agudah of West Lawrence). I was protesting that someone claimed the rosh yeshiva Rav Jaeger is on the Vaad when he absolutely is not.

5 Towns said...

Part 2

"Almost all of Rabbi Eisen's volumes of episodes on Rabbi Gornish were proven to be baseless."

There are many, many episodes that are absolutely true. Gornish has supporters by the way who attack & smear Rav Eisen for exposing Gornish. This includes a shul rov / small time Rebbe that is related to Gornish but does not disclose that he is mishpocho.

Gornish scandals for you to check out that many rabbonim are aware of:

The shawarma joint next to the Ave M train station that sold treif meat for a long time

Mountain Fruit supermarket selling produce from Israel with trumos maasros problems.

Bertolini restaurant using asparagus with the florets & triangles still intact. The mashgiach told rabbonim that Gornish gave him no instructions of any sort.

Touna catering by Ocean Pkwy & Ave T suspected of not being shomer shabbos baal habusta, Gornish's mashgiach didn't show up for 3 weeks because he was "sick" and Gornish didn't even know about it.

"Funny" stuff at Sunflower Cafe though I can't recall the exact details right now.

Dairyland on Nostrand they were using old rotting cheese for the pizza that made everyone sick. There was also a sotah sitting around all day making passes at men. Beis Din had videotape evidence of her bringing fremde men home during the day. She eventually married one of the shutfim.

And basically every Gornish restaurant had problems with bugs which is why I stopped eating from him. One rosh yeshiva told me that he was shocked that a certain gornisht (excuse the pun) who knows nothing from nothing was hired as a Gornish mashgiach and that's when he stopped eating from the hashgocho.

I will post more about Gornish as I remember it. Most of the above details in restaurants I saw myself including how things were not checked for bugs.

Ask restaurant owners how the only time they see Gornish is when he stops by to pick up his money, cash preferred of course.

And you don't know the old klal gadol that when a hashgocho is too cheap & easy that is the reason why all the lowlife Israelis use that hashgocho? No one else achieved this previously except for the Chuster & Dovid Katz. What does that tell you?

Gornish gets away with a lot because KIC covers up for him. KIC only tells you to avoid bad kashrus if the rav hamachshir is Sefardi or modern orthodox, not if he dresses like a heimishe. But al kol ponim, Gornish is an Amerikanner who became chassidish later in life. What is the excuse of KIC types why they give Gornish a pass? In the words of one rov that I ask it's because if you pester Gornish for weeks or months to fix a problem, he eventually fixes each individual problem you bring to his attention even though he is grumpy about it.

Anonymous said...

Dairyland & Bertolini have not been around for a long time. Dairyland is now on Ave M & known as Simon Sez. Bertolini was renamed Burtolucci and was then sold to Weiss. Weiss is at the center of the latest agunah PR campaign where his wife claims she was forced to do slave labor for the restaurant. This Weiss is the nephew of the infamous Shulem Weiss who was captured in Austria & is currently serving an 850 year sentence for a massive ponzi scheme.

Mountain Fruit was under Gornish at the beginning but had other kashrus problems after switching to Kehilla (before Rav Eisen worked for them)

Anonymous said...

Yudel what happend weinberger moved u have to wipe him out

RMG said...

You look like a bunch of little kids trying to top each other on who is worse and who should not be in the hashgocha business. Obviously, the maikel playbook does not apply to the rich Jews of the 5 Towns - we can only be machmir on those people.

What are you doing to the reputations of the mentioned Rabbonim? How many nights do they go to sleep crying that their reputation has been tarnished because of sinas chinam? That they cannot give a psak halocha because an opposing rav with a need to get a reputation has a need to be more machmir and therefore ossurs that rav?

Rabbosai - what will you say after 120 years? That you did it on a warped idea that this was l'shaim shomayim? THat you had the right to destroy a person because you did not agree with his psak?

Anonymous said...


you are essentially arguing that if a rabbi signs off on food that is not kosher to eat we should remain silent.

What will those who remained silent say achar meah v'esrim?

What is warped is that you are advocating the opposite of what halacha mandates.

Anonymous said...

There has to be another way.

Even if Rabbi Eisen accepted a Yudelstake blog challenge, the establishment powers that hate Yudel would hound Rabbi Eisen out of the kashrus industry for being goress you.

Anonymous said...

The consumers are being goress reb yudel shoin ein muhl.

The Eisens and the like are afraid for the truth to come out. Well reb yudel is penetrating the consumers with emmes, you guys only know bluff.

Anonymous said...

He didn't accept because you did not offer the $$$$ to him UP FRONT.

Anonymous said...

A phony Qveens rabbi who defends the Qveens Vaad even though he himself knows it is a big problem is not eating several items under VHQ that he figures must be infested.

The infested items could be anywhere, even at the Main St bagel store the chive cream cheese. You really think every stalk was checked before being cut up?

The difference between Qveens & the next door 5 Towns is that one administrator helps his modern orthodox masters bechol koycho perpetrate a big lie that everything is "mehadrin" and the other administrator will tell you the truth of what the shul rabbis are forcing standards that are not for bnei Torah.

Anonymous said...

5 Towns hashgocha is just a facade, they think they are getting mehadrin while they aren't even getting basics. They are eating treif, but the administrator could say over a chofetz chaim, a Ramchal, etc.

Chossid of you know who said...

Saying over a Ramchal in the 5 Towns kimt nisht tze der chasheevis of giving a shiur at the shul on Mertropolitan. Just one of those shiurs kashers 100 dishes of unchecked broccoli on Main St restaurants in Kew Gardens Hills.And the weeks there was a robocall to announce the shiur, it also kashered the unchecked strawberries for dessert.

Kashrus standards in Queens are imported from the old modern orthodox / conservative KVH in Boston. But giving a shiur in Bostoner of Boston is a much bigger hock than on Mertropolitan.

Anonymous said...

Here goes the "Kranke Neshamah" again.
They would not give him the 'Daf Yomi' shiur (as if he knows what that is). So he goes off the deep end one again - 'ranting and raving' about the same old shtusim.

Give us your mother's name so Yudel can put you on his 'anon' T'hilim list.

Kew G said...

I remember a few years ago someone complaining to R' Shlomo about the robocall mentioning a shiur. He is the same guy who marched over to Rabbi Gewirtz one day to inform him that he had snooped around the Bais Yaakov kitchen & determined it to be not kosher. Rabbi Gewirtz wouldn't give him the time of day.

Anonymous said...

"at the meeting with Rabbi Dovid Cohen "kehila" ... Rabbi Adler."

Surely you must know that Rabbi Dovid Cohen has a history of going into meetings & dinei Torah with his mind already made up before they commence? And that Rabbi Dovid Cohen is completely unpredictable as to who he will hammer or who he will cover up for, which can defy logic?

And is that Rabbi Zecharya Adler? Have you never experienced how he argues until blue in the face that Kehillah cannot possibly be doing anything wrong when you bring a kashrus problem to his attention? But at least Zecharya is not as bad as Beirach who attacks & insults you when you are meorer something about Kehillah.

Anonymous said...

"he had snooped around the Bais Yaakov kitchen"

was he just wearing a bathrobe or did he have enough kavod habriyos to get dressed? that is another reason why rabbi gewirtz has no interest in what he has to say. have you ever seen him outside on BYQ's block?

another wanna be said...

If you never looked in a hebrew book in your life you can not have even a clue of how a Rabbi who know all the hebrew books operates.
Thus, what you think is being 'meorer' about something,
has no value and/or would make no sense.
All this is obvious from your comment above.

Anonymous said...

"If you never looked in a hebrew book in your life you can not have even a clue of how a Rabbi who know all the hebrew books operates."

That sounds like a comeback from Beirach himself.

But if you find a specific irrefutable kashrus problem then he insults your wife too.

Anonymous said...

Thu Jul 24, 08:31:00 AM 2014

Maybe its a comeback, maybe not.
But, the has not denied the fact that he never looked in a hebrew book, let alone a sefer.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I deny it. Now what, big mouth?

Anonymous said...

The 5 Town administrator did a nice shtikel, when some out of town vaad came to inspect 5 towns facilities, he sent them to the only places that have an acceptable system in infestation.

He took them for a ride or as they say he took them to the cleaners.

Fah'rooked said...

You mean if he was more 'honest' !?!?!?!? he would take them to his worst places????

Anonymous said...

If you want to hear even bigger 5 Towns propaganda you should have heard how the owners of Gourmet Glatt farentfered for their concessionaire Zomick's bakery which was infested even by goyish standards.

Eventually, with giving away the chazirey for half price, there were enough 5 Towns fressers with no principals who started buying it again.

Anonymous said...

I don't know about the kitchen but there were a few kollel yungerleit parents who were upset about the kashrus standards of the meal plan at Bais Yaakov Queens.

And this is why not much if anything could be done

Call it if you will a conflict of interest that the school's money man is also the caterer. He wants the cheapest route to putting lunch on the tables. They tried to speak to someone about it but that someone said you should approach the money man directly. The money man is the one who decides tuition and he is not easy to get along with already. He actually has the reputation of being the toughest money man at any yeshiva or Bais Yaakov. So what do you think is going to happen if he gets upset at parents who complain about kashrus? The parents just decided to tell their daughters not to eat the worm infested fish sticks and a couple of other items.

The rather odd thing is that the money man is basing himself on Rabbi Belsky allowing the worms. But a group from the Chofetz Chaim yeshiva crowd who don't like the money man claim that Rabbi Belsky told them he holds the money man is a meshugenner.

Anonymous said...

the usual blog hockers aren't defending the bais yaakov queens figure because he gives everyone a hard time with tuition including queens vaad staff too. could he be the only person in queens with a koach over the queens vaad?

Anonymous said...

Do u know that the mashgichim in restaurants in 5 towns first have ti be Trained and approved by either the checkers at gourmet glatt or seasons they don't just walk in and start checking like by other organizations so please verify you're facts before publishing

myth debunker said...

Wed Aug 13, 06:55:00 PM needs to check HIS "facts".

A 5 Towns restaurant mashgiach told me he does NOT check whatsoever for miners in romaine.