Friday, November 17, 2023

An Anonymous Letter to Agudas Yisroel of America

 How the Agudah & the Moetzes Have Lost Touch With Their Followers:

 The following anonymous letter has been circulating:

Dear Agudas Yisroel of America.

I write to you as someone who considers himself an “Agudah Yid” even if I may be a few years behind in my membership dues! I grew up in a household where the Agudah and the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah reigned supreme. But it seems to be that we have reached a crossroads and that Agudah needs to make a decision. Fast.

It is no secret that Ultra Orthodoxy today is divided into several groups.

There are the Chassidim. Many major groups of Chassidim were anti Agudah from the start and the ones who weren’t don’t seem to be too eager to join right now. They are largely insular and prefer the leadership of their own rebbes. No Rebbe of a major Chasidus is part of Agudah. And so Agudah does not represent them nor should they attempt to.

There is “Lakewood” and the people under their influence. (Full disclosure, I live in Lakewood) The Lakewood yeshiva community is a right-leaning community. This means practically that the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva and Rabbonim will sign bans against 24/6 (and Megillas Esther), will take strong positions against all new technology, always rule stringently in areas of women’s modesty, and – well, you get my point. Similar to the Chassidim, they are insular and do not have much interest in the outside world. To date, there is no major support, respect, or interest in Agudah from the Lakewood yeshiva community.

Then there are the others. These are the Ultra-Orthodox Jews from Brooklyn to Passaic to Monsey and from the tens of smaller communities across the country. They have a bona-fide yeshiva education but also look outward. They may have gone to college, or they may not have, but they certainly see value in a broader education and worldview. They also see themselves as part of a larger Jewish world, at home and abroad. They do not “support” the non-religious, but they are pained by the fact that so many Jews do not live a life of Torah. It seems to me that this is Agudas Yisroel’s constituency. To be fair, I think this was the dominant (non-Chassidic) view of Ultra Orthodoxy in American since World War 2, and it is the Lakewood Yeshiva crowd that has slowly moved in a new direction.

You may not want that or like that, but those are the facts. The core followers of the Agudah are the non-Chassidism, non-Lakewood communities.

And yet, your Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah is filled with people who are often at odds with your core constituency. No one is questioning the greatness of any member of the Moetzes (obviously), and there are legitimate positions on many issues, but members of an organization need and deserve to have a rabbinical board that share basic values and approaches with them. Why should the Lakewood yeshiva world have such a strong voice in the Moetzes of Agudah when the Lakewood yeshiva world is not even part of Agudah?

Now I know what you will tell me: “we listen to our Gedolim and accept their words even if we disagree”. But you and I both know that is false. To date there is no member of the Modern Orthodox world on your Moetzes despite there being many great Talmidei Chachamim among them. There is no member of Chabad on your board either. Clearly, there needs to be a baseline “hashkafah” that a Gadol has to have in order to be considered for the Moetzes. And so again, why is the Moetzes made up of so many members who are so at odds with the people who look to Agudah for guidance?

The rally in Washington D.C. this week is a perfect example of the problem. I am not concerned with the merits of either side; I simply want to take a look at the disconnect here.

Many Ultra-Orthodox communities across the country were eager to participate in this historic, and what they saw as vital, rally. And what was the position of the Agudah? First, they sent out a timid email with what appeared to be reluctant support for the rally. To an outsider it seemed that the Moetzes did not want to support the rally at all, but realized that opposing it would not sit well with their constituents and so they did not come out against it. Their weak email created a vacuum to allow the mess that was to follow.

The evening before the event a letter comes out signed by 4 member of the Moetzes (a 5th joined later) saying that it is assur to go to the rally. Never mind the cruelty of the November surprise, but to our point, the views of this Moetzes are simply worlds apart from the people who would be Agudah members. Even before the letter came out there were almost no buses from Lakewood going to the event. In in 5 Towns, you were embarrassed to not be attending the rally and in Lakewood no one even knew about it! Many Rabbonim from outside of Lakewood supported and joined the rally; are they not “chared lidvar Hashem”?

There is a terrible divide between the ideology of the voice coming out of Agudah and the people who are its loyal adherents. This is leading to nothing less than the destruction of Agudah. Consider the fact that most people would struggle to find some positive communal initiative that Agudah has implemented for Klal Yisroel over the past few years. They are clearly handicapped by the many voices in the Moetzes and so they take the path of least resistance and do nothing. While their counterpart at the OU are engaged in community changing Torah projects and initiatives, Agudah is making grand conventions. With their AllDaf app OU is teaching millions of Yidden Shas, while the Agudah is making millions off of Yiden with a Siyum HaShas.

(Caveat – We are talking here about Agudah as a voice and guidance for Torah Jewry in America. There are a lot of projects that Agudah is involved in, such as lobbying, legal/political initiatives that are invaluable.)

The Lakewood yeshiva world has adopted very different views then many of us. These are of course legitimate views, just as the Gedolim purporting them are tremendous people. If the Agudah wants to appeal to these voiced and embrace the Rabbonim who speak for them- fine. Let us know and we will wish you well, and probably start a new organization to speak for us. I should warn you, however, that most of the “yeshivsh” Rosh Yeshivas want nothing to do with Agudah and most of their followers have nothing but ridicule for you.

But if you want to continue to be the voice for what is still the mainstream Ultra-Orthodox in the country, it is time that real change comes to your institution. Those changes might be in who is allowed to be on the Moetzes, or maybe what types of questions need the Moetzes approval, or maybe who gets to have veto power, I don’t know. But I do know that you are currently in dangerous waters. You are being dominated by voices who are diametrically opposed to the deepest convictions of the only people who still support you. That situation cannot last.

Posted by Dusiznies at 11:00AM 

Anonymous said...

Very well said' in a condensed article.November 17, 2023 at 12:31PM

23 comments:

  1. Must be another BB (Balleh Baus) who tried to tell the moietzes what to do and/or say.
    As this site keeps promoting that from day one the BB, Secrataarin, and all others told, tell and will tell our gedolim what to do and say and sign.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Any 'open letters' to address the current style of the insular bnai yeshivah and 'bnon shel shtarkeh and shpitz yeshiah oldies' saying that today the secular courts are far better and more honest then batay dinim. Hashem Yerachem !?!?!?
    Or that they can uses outright mesirah to achieve their goals ?? Is that why we put in all our efforts to support them and their moisdos ???
    Are these tne new chumrahs of the day ????

    HASHEM YERACHEM.

    ReplyDelete
  3. There are many caterers and event venues who make a livelihood off of the Agudah. It would be a pity if the Agudah would cease making ess and fress events

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are more kinyan musika dependents then any other event.
      There are kinyan planners. Kinyan florists kinyan goish music with Hebrew words dependents and last but not least the club flash lighting and boom box guys.
      And nevach the gedolim that fell into this kinyan have to suffer through those concerts that the nasi
      lives on. The fress part is not so public over ridden by the hot music.
      The travel club kinyan will leave for another time we don’t need FF joining THAT club.

      Delete
  4. The Agudah is a great advocacy group. It ends there,
    The bigwigs in the Agudah obviously do NOT consult with their gedolim before making decisions. They just leave the gedolim to clean up the mess.
    Agudah, stick to advocacy, we need you for that. Stop trying to become Halachah or Hashkafah relevant.
    Those days are over for you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aye. You the guy we are looking for.
      Comon down. The Gedolim need you.
      Any ess n fress they offer you just donate to our in-house FF.

      Delete
    2. Who are there out there available to be consulted

      Delete
  5. https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2241089/read-it-rav-aharon-feldman-shlita-responds-to-massive-controversy-over-pro-israel-march.html

    ReplyDelete
  6. If we are a proud jew we should want to hide those hostage posters . [Go obliterate Gaza ]
    Suddenly they want the whole world to treat us as pooor nebachs
    They're demeaning
    Furthermore,what with all the holocaust metaphors?Israeli Zionists used to endlessly disparage the holocaust & galut Jew.
    They were proud to have zero connection with it!

    ReplyDelete
  7. R'F was from the early to come out against attending
    How is this to be explained unless others need him now to cover for their hides

    It's humorous

    ReplyDelete
  8. Agudah Multiverse of MadnessTue Nov 21, 07:18:00 AM 2023

    I don't understand how Rav Feldman's letter makes sense UNLESS the Agudah Fresser baal habatim LIED to him that the entire Moetzes was originally on board with the Tzionishe-Apikorsishe collaboration. Watch the video of Rav Sorotzkin being moiche quite a while before the rally & wonder how Rav Feldman's letter adds up.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Betting on the Wrong HorseTue Nov 21, 07:41:00 AM 2023

    "great advocacy"??

    No thanks. Dunno about that commentator but most who claim to belong to the oylam Hatorah don't appreciate much of the agenda that the Agudah's NJ Ferd was galloping down to Trenton with. And even out of Agudah HQ in Manhattan, you may not have realized that they have pushed certain agendas in Albany & DC too that the gedolei Eretz Yisroel are against. This is already old news. R' Yaakov was upset by some moves made by Sherer without knowledge of the Moetzes. When the lawyers in the Board Room said to cover up the Kolko scandal to protect the bank account, Rav Pam vehemently protested until he was blue in the face that such a decision goes against kol Hatorah kulah. Rav Pam was ignored but some askonim quit the Agudah in response. The askonim were told to fight the Agudah regarding Kolko by the alter Tenker Ruv, the Shaarim Metzuyonim Bahalacha & R' Avigdor Miller. When the Agudah later joined with the Catholic tiflus to sabotage a NY State Bill going after child molesters & enablers, also to protect their own bank account, Rav Sternbuch complained that they have no recht. After 2 rounds of sabotaging the Bill, the Agudah finally stopped fighting it in the 3rd round, but only because of a huge public backlash.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Ghostwriting mostly.It isn't his style
    Same as stated basically earlier: As long as we're on top however convoluted because we grabbed the reins & you keep on following,everything is wonderful

    ReplyDelete

  11. Many of those opposing Schnall have a longer experience of devotion to the klal' than all the those who backed him combined
    They have volumes of mesiras nefesh & vision
    It was davka for these that
    R Shnuer Kotler held that a group of klohr Bnei Torah have the din of Gadol Hador


    Assuming you aren't those multitudes preferring pretty euphemisms serving as a cover for partying for the klal' with frills of askan photos chesed throwing

    ReplyDelete
  12. Tue Nov 21, 07:18:00 AM 2023

    Its quite funny..
    When the Non Agudah Fresser's or wanna be fressers don't like what Rav S...Says, then hes just a telzseh. But when he says something to support their anti agendas (thast all they know is anti...) Then hes the biggest zaddik around.

    Another day with the self appointed terrorist activists.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Tue Nov 21, 07:41:00 AM 2023

    Every single line in that sermon is a lie. One lie after the next..

    ReplyDelete

  14. R Shnuer Kotler held that a group of klohr Bnei Torah have the din of Gadol Hador (If he ever said it)

    The latest and newest 'Yeshiviah' looking self appointed as "KLOR Bnai tairah".
    What a joke.
    Oh. Those "KLOR Bnai tairah" are now in court doing mesirah and comitting chillul hashem every second of the day by ignoring 3 batay dinim.
    Pretty klohr against shulchan aruch, daas tairah etc.

    But they are the "Prime" example of "KLOR Bnai tairah" guys....

    Oy meh hayah lanu.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Agudah is shlepping everyone around this year anyway. Making the hotel crazy because they barely filling the convention . Now let’s see them take advantage of their new caterer Greenwald. Michael had enough of their garbage and went running away. Shultz picked it up and they treated him like shmutz . Now the head over there took Greenwald And now Greenwald will be the sucker. Agudah is so detached from reality these days.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Yudel you totally lost your posting such sick tzyionis for some reason you think torah only applies to food

    ReplyDelete
  17. The Imrei Emes thought to travel via Munkatch to meet with the Belzer Rebbe as he heard that the Belzer Rebbe opposed Agudas Yisroel, which the Imrei Emes strongly supported.

    However, The Imrei Emes writes that when he stopped in Vienna, he was informed of the Belzer Rebbe’s true reason for not joining the Agudah.

    After hearing the reason, he decided not to travel to meet the Belzer Rebbe, as his reason for not joining was cogent and justified.

    What was the reason for the Belzer Rebbe not joining?

    And why did the Imrei Emes accept and even justify the Belzer Rebbe’s position?

    The Imrei Emes writes that the Belzer Rebbe was not against the Agudah per se.

    Rather, the Belzer Rebbe felt there always has to be someone “on the outside” to be able to see things as an outsider and not as an “insider.”

    The Imrei Emes explains that an organization may do something “She’Eino Tov”- which is “not good.”

    And, continues the Imrei Emes, the way of those who are in the organization is to “COVER UP” the “not-good.”

    Therefore, explains the Imrei Emes, the Belzer Rebbe’s non-conformity should not be perceived as being “anti” the Agudah; rather, he will serve the critical role of the man “outside” the organization to provide a justified and necessary critique of the organization and policies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Another “outside poster” Rebbeleh with his shalaseedis toiroo.

      Delete
  18. 'You Know Who' in NYC's outer outer Boro is running around this thread like a headless chicken at Kappuros, desperately trying to drown out any & all facts that cast his beloved Agudah Fressers in a bad light. He especially tries to shout it's a "lie" over Kolko because all molesters are in this together & he has to protect the mechuton & other molesters in zein mishpooche. As usual he casts those with different opinions than him as "terrorists". Ain kol chodosh tachas hashemesh! Haveil havulim hakol fin 'You Know Who' iz duch Hevel!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1:20 AM - yeh AYE EM.
      Thank you for your repeated kind words.
      It seems that this is the only kind words he knows - he keeps pasting
      it over and over again.
      K’kelev choizer al ki’oy.
      Of course he can’t even say say “Lav Kalba Ana” when he survives in FFing.
      Can anyone one buy him at least 1 meal at this weeks convention? You’ll do the greatest mitzvah in the world and give him
      Lots of fodder for the next 10 years.
      You may need super potectzia to undo the ban to the convention for our FF. But that’s why it even a bigger mitzvah.

      Delete