Wednesday, May 01, 2024

KCL-CATERING STANDARDS QUESTIONED?



The following article appeared in the past in an English Magazine  (reprinted with some clarification.)
Catering Standards Questioned? Invited to an affair under the supervision of a Lakewood's yeshiva [ KCL] established  “Hashgocha” , but which was being held in a non-kosher facility, we went into the kitchen to look around and to compare notes with the Mashgiach. we were not prepared for what we found.

More disappointing was it to learn that the “Rabbonim” who certified the  [KCL]  never visited any of their certified establishments. The affair under their certification which was being held in a non-kosher facility.
KASHRUS recently discovered a number of such organizations where the “Rabbonim themselves have never seen the operation which they certify, but instead rely totally on the head “Mashgiach or on their Kashrus Administrator to make all “halachic” decisions.

This letter, basically unchanged, was mailed to all of the “Rabbonim” in the Lakewood  KCL kashrus organization. As of our printing we have not received any reply.  

Dear Rabbi ........ BS”D


We would be remiss if we do not report to you directly just what we observed of the procedures used at an affair supervised by your Hashgocha organization which was held in a non-kosher establishment. At a recent affair where we were guests, We went into the kitchen with another Rabbi. Having been shown around by the Mashgiach on duty, we had the following concerns which we hope you will address.

1. The non-kosher facility was allowed to leave their non-kosher utensils out in open view of the waiters and kitchen staff. By utensils, we mean ladles used to serve soup, etc. and eating utensils. Needless to say, with a little preparation these could be kept out of sight of the non-Jewish staff so as not to tempt them to use them.

The Mashgiach said to us, “I’ll give you $100 if you find a non-kosher utensil on the floor (in the ballroom).” The Mashgiach himself goes onto the ballroom floor from time to time to check if utensils are mistakenly used. This means that the possibility does exist. It also means that he is not constantly in the kitchen. Then why leave the utensils out at all?!

We understand from your head Mashgiach that he had advised the Mashgiach on duty to allow the eating utensils to remain in hands reach, but covered. Instead, the Mashgiach put them 8 feet away, completely uncovered. Why should this be allowed? It is inviting trouble.

We also observed some 6-8 (non-kosher) ladles hanging in full view. It takes a worker seconds to grab one & put it into the soup. (See also #5 that no ladles were marked in any way.) This is one of the reasons why accidentally non-kosher utensils sometimes (too often) get taken back in error from an affair held at a non-kosher facility. (All too common.)

2. Since a) the affair was fairly large (500 plus guests), b) the Mashgiach does leave the kitchen to check the floor (ballroom) as well as for personal needs, and c) non-kosher equipment is in full hands-reach of the staff, I feel that such an affair requires 2 Mashgichim, not just one. (See # 6.)

3. The Mashgiach allowed the waiters to use the non-kosher (uncovered) trays for serving hot foods. This is not an accepted procedure anywhere, as far as we know. Should a hot piece of chicken fall onto the the tray (the waiter would put it back on to the plate), would that not constitute a serious problem?

4. Only a part of the kitchen was kashered. Quite understandable. However, it seems inappropriate to have different kosher zones spread throughout the kitchen area. Better would be to cover with paper the entire area from the ballroom side until where the kosher food is prepared, not to leave open spaces that are not kosher between where the food is cooked, prepared & served.. It is so easy for a worker to put a hot pot, utensil, etc. on the nearest space available.

5. There were places which the Mashgiach did not kasher which we feel do need kashering. Some counter spaces had raised racks over them. The underside of the raised racks were not kashered nor covered. This presents a “zeah (vapor) problem, one which kashrus agencies do know to address. It could also be a problem of actual food leftovers, because no-one even bothered to examine the underside of the racks. See also next paragraph.

The Mashgiach at the affair told me that indeed this is a problem and he would make an effort to cover the bottoms of the racks in the future.

We also noted a pole in the middle of the production area which we felt should have been kashered, not just washed, and/or should have been draped with some material. The pots and pot covers do touch this pole while they are hot. Although the Mashgiach washed it, he neither kashered nor covered it.

6. None of the caterer’s ladles were marked for meat. This caterer does both meat and dairy at his commissary. We were told by your head Mashgiach that since there are so few dairy ones, only the dairy utensils are marked. Although Shulchan Aruch advises marking one type of utensils, the common procedure today, wherever I observed, is to mark both dairy & meat serving utensils, especially if catering in non-kosher facilities also, & paint does wear off. We must be able to distinguish between the caterer’s kosher utensils & the facilities non-kosher utensils.

7. While we were waiting, we saw some of the staff go to another room, eat non-kosher pizza, bring the boxes into the kitchen & then resume serving, with no washing of hands between eating the non-kosher pizza & serving a glatt kosher meat dinner. The Mashgiach did not (realize) respond until the problem was pointed out to him. Then he asked only one or two workers to wash. This is an additional reason why we feel that the affair needs another Mashgiach.

We hope that these issues have already been raised to the Rabbonim of your organization & that the Rabbonim consider the present methods acceptable. I would like to understand where my reasoning is faulty. It is for this reason that I am sending this letter to the Rabbonim certifying your kashrus organization.

I would appreciate either a written or oral response. Update: We never received any response or acknowledgement from the Rabonim or the Organization.



(This Lakewood based kashrus Organization was set-up as a political Organization, to have control & power over the food establishments in Lakewood, not as a kashrus Organization for the Tzibur to rely upon, & it remains so to this day. ys)

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yudel, you know yourself how naming figures in kashrus scandals brings retaliation not just against the rov that is mefarsem but against the rov's whole mishpocho.

Rav Yosef Wikler is not mechuyev to call out all the names if the Kosher Nostra Mafia is going to attack him and try to destroy him, and they certainly will.

Do you know how many severe threats he gets even for publishing stories that don't identify anyone?

Israel said...

http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=53359&cat=1&scat=1

Pe’er Meats and Poultry in the Beer Tuvia Industrial Zone in Kiryat Malachi is alleged to have distributed for Passover regular kosher meat products deceptively labeled mehadrin kosher, the Israeli designation for glatt kosher, Bechadrei Chadarim reports. The meat had apparently fraudulent or misapplied stickers from Charedi rabbis (Chug Chasam Sofer - Petach Tikva) designating it mehadrin.

A customer saw something awry with the packaging and contacted the local state religious council, which realized that the switch had been made.

The local state controlled religious council forced the meat purveyor to replace his kosher supervisor but allowed him to remain in business.

Pe’er Meat and Poultry said in response that “the meat was glatt and that's what [the rabbinate’s] hearing found, as well. It was a mistake with the fat of the cattle, which was supervised as regular kosher not glatt.” The meat was shipped back to Pe’er, the spokesperson said, relabed as regular kosher and resold.

Pe’er was reportedly caught last year importing unsupervised cod that arrived cleaned and headless, making it difficult to determine its kosher status.

Anonymous said...

rabbai shain
der gantze maise is
your son was almost engaged to weisners daughter
they said no
so since then you started hacking on him
i know because i was the shaddchan

Anonymous said...

shaddchan

The velt darshans roshei tayvos sheker dover, kesef notel.

Anonymous said...

R' Dovid Soloveitchik zogt di roshei teivos zeinen noch erger: shoifech domim, kessef noteil.

Anonymous said...

Since we are allowed to learn the sugya of charamos on 9 Av I will mention that Beis Din Tzedek Umishpot has put out a siruv against AER which is the contractor that hires shochtim for Hebrew National. It seems that some individuals have been trying to sue Ralbag in goyish court for kashrus fraud and the court refused to hear the case because they said they cannot decide what a kashrus standard is so the plaintiffs turned to beis din to decide the standard. AER then refused to go anywhere except a beis din which Ralbag can manipulate which the BDTU of course poskened is unacceptable.

Anonymous said...

Once these Jokers went to 'goyish' court and lost, You don't have to EVER go to B'D. By going to 'Goiysh' court thet relinquished their rights to a Bais din.
If Ralbag agrees to go to B'D, any B'D hes a Tzadik.

ps find out why Ralbag got rid of them - it'll blow your mind that they ever held a 'chalef'.

coming to town very soon said...

Yudel.

Can you create a list of eateries that one can eat in if some out of towner needs a place to buy 'ready made' food or a place to dine in Lakewwod?
You seem to have lists for all other things but have not seen a Lakewood approved establishments list.

Thank you

yussis said...

Chaim & gavriels stake house is for sure not a problem.

Anonymous said...

Magnifying glass spoon, perfect for checking for bugs on the go.

http://www.objectsolutions.net/objects/contaminants-outside-home/magnifying-spoon/

Anonymous said...

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.”

Anonymous said...

Why would you be looking for a job at Hebrew National ? Are you already eating it and now your enemies found out??
Also if you went to court you automatically lose the case.
Your a ‘oived avoidaeh zara” and a classic denier of the Jewish religion and its G….
You are also Pasuk to work in a meat place - you can’t be trusted.

Anonymous said...

There are 60 homemade food establishments under KCL.
Mashgiach going into private home unannounced would create many many issues for our posek reb Yudel Shlit’a.
We, the consumer, must know all the issues, please post them.

Anonymous said...

You got to love these shaddchan mayselach and sofas tavos and roshay tavos.
It is well known that the Maharil who is quoted on every page in the Shulchan Aruch was a shaddchan.
That was his parnasah and he said it was the most kosher income one could have.
But in Lakewood they seem to apply those roshay tavos to all do not exactly follow the “1140 hora”.

Anonymous said...

100% correct.
You go to court you automatically lose any rights to go to Bais din.
Maybe that Bais din needs ‘continuing education courses’ to continue to be certified as a Bais din.
BTW why would anyone go to such a Bais din to begin with?? Better go to Ralbags Bais din with all the untrue manipulation attributed to him.

Anonymous said...

Any out of tower coming to Lakewood should bring his own food from home. Think of Lakewood as going to North Dakotah with no kosher food within a 500 mile radius. Other then starkest tune in a supermarket.

Out of Tower? said...


"out of tower ... North Dakotah with no kosher food within a 500 mile radius"

Factually incorrect as with everything else from the batlonim trying to ridicule R' Yudel.

It's 69 miles on the Selkirk Highway from North Dakota to the kosher food in Winnepeg, Manitoba.

194 miles on I-94 from North Dakota to the kosher food in Minneapolis.

175 miles on I-29 from North Dakota to the kosher food in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. (Besides OU productions in that city under the honorary Chief Rabbi of Sioux Falls, Rabbi Juravel, there is also the private hashgocho of Rabbi Mendel Alperowitz known as Dakota Kosher with take out food available.

Now what's with that "starkest tune"?

Maggots and Thrips and Scales Oh My said... said...


It sounded to me like the old KCL falshe shtick of special batches of "uninfested raisins".

At a Pesach hotel this week under a heimishe shgoocha they garnished the ice cream with blueberries. My rebbitzen assumed they were freeze dried but I disagreed considering the consistency. So I sought out the mashgiach. He only speaks Yiddish & Ivrit and he felt the explanation was too technical to relay in those languages so he involved the maintenance director who also gets involved in wholesale ordering to explain it to me in English. They were takkeh not freeze dried. They are stam frozen. So what about the fact that the shgoocha does not allow frozen blueberries? He claims that he found a batch that is years old from before the shgoocha started assering blueberries. This of course makes zero sense as such blueberries are fort bechezkas infestation which is not affected by when the shgoocha decided to "wake up". I pretended that I fell for it because there have been many nasty retaliatory events in the hotel industry when you call out their kashrus lies to their faces. With his Modern Orthodox son for instance was notoriously retaliating against kashrus minded guests by throwing out their food when they turn their backs & giving away their table in the dining room to visiting entertainers. This was after he impersonated a mashgiach to find out how much shmutz the guests caught on to.

The question this week is if the mashgiach is paid off or intimidated or if he was somehow duped into believing this nonsense that blueberries suddenly became infested from one day to the next.

Anonymous said...

The Modern Orthodox (or is it Open Orthodox?) son of "der Kamtzan" mentioned 5:13 pm was also distributing the divrei "Torah" newsletter of Riskin and allowing Left Wing Moderner women to swim in the hotel's pool on Shabbos. When the women were finished they waded in their bikinis through the crowd at Kiddush to get back to their rooms. Their hashgocho is a disaster but the oylem goylem is fooled because the rav hamachshir is shoel umayshev in a very yeshivishe place.

Anonymous said...

There is really no way a affair in a non kosher place could be done well wirh only 1 mashgiach . While the mashgiach goes out to the ballroom to check thos out and taste test all tje buffet items who is in the kitchen to close the doors to the oven when foodis put in to be cooked for dinner the ovens are not by passed .

Anonymous said...

Thu May 02, 02:32:00 PM 2024

Thank you Soooooo much for the clarification AND missing the point.

Shabbos shooolem.

Heimishe Shgooche said...

The hotel with those blueberries had no mashgiach for the motzaei Pesach chometz meal. Although the breakfast mashgiach was there to fill his boich, he not only refused to get involved when a problem arose but he created a problem himself.

Someone shreyed that the popcorn is bishul akum. A guest then intervened with the program owner who insisted that a Yid had zicher turned on the theater-style popper machine, but just in case he said he ran over to flip the machine off & on. Nice cover up as we later received edus that a Yid did not originally activate the machine so the owner's shtick did not solve the problem for much popcorn already produced. I don't know if anyone holds lehalacha that rock hard popcorn kernels are usually eaten raw or if any heimishe shgooche would have the gall to tayna "Hefsid Mereebeh"

The breakfast mashgiach had announced Tues night that all the chometz Hamoitzee items are really Mezoinos. When a guest questioned him he admitted he has no knowledge if one of the two item types contains any fruit juice whatsoever. The breakfast mashgiach privately explained that he has his own (krummeh) shita to always make Mezoinos on Hamoitzee items which "ken zein" he should not have been mefarsem. (Ya think?)

Anonymous said...

Thu May 02, 05:13:00 PM 2024

Sounds like you ran into kashrut issues previously in Hotels or at least you were aware of issues, yet you still chose to go to a Hotel, for PESACH out of all holidays, and you claim you are diligent on kashrut !! Strange to say the least.

(would of used Yomim Tovim - but for a guy who goes to hotels for Pesach its just a holiday/vacation nothing to do with Yomim Tovim)

Anonymous said...

Thu May 02, 07:45:00 PM 2024

Unfortunately there are thousands of 'oylem goylem's out there.
Thats a great annual fortune for the tour operators.

Anonymous said...

Fri May 03, 11:10:00 AM 2024

Another halachah expert whos been going to hotels for centuries on Passover and at any available opportunity. (Except the Fressers convention - quoting his own words - which he never manages to get a reservation or to crash it - thus the lable: Fressers....)

Yoshon minayin? said...

Why are you quiet about the Chodosh skandal with the matzos this year?

Anonymous said...

please explain.
Spring wheat gluten?
Which bakeries?
Chasidish? go with the Bach, no yoshon issues.

Yoshon minayin? said...

Not just at the infamous Lakewood Matzos Bakery ober afilu by the heilig Pupa Tzeilem

Pesach Hotel Fresser said...

They should put Shabbos instructions by the heisseh vasser urns so that the am haaratzishe yentas don't do bishul when making coffee & preparing baby bottles. And they should put up instructions in the Lichtsin area for Shabbos Chol Hamoied because you wouldn't believe how many of the yentas, including the ones mit shpitzels, were arguing that you have to bentch shel Shabbos VESHEL Yomtov AND/OR Shehechiyunee!

Anonymous said...

What were the yoshon issues at the matzah bakeries this year?
If you don't know, say so.

Anonymous said...

Mon May 06, 02:52:00 PM 2024

Another experienced pesach hotel fresser mit eitzes for their fellow fressers.

Chodosh min Hatorah assur said...

Dach zich that someone who knows punkt what happened with the matzos figures that R' Yudel has to know all about it & is prompting him to speak his mind

Vasser Trogger said...

The urns are a problem in hotels all year round. Some of the veibelas are also making the spouts milchdik (via tato govar & even direct immersion) that the oylam relies on for pareve coffee. In a hotel under heimish hashgocho where the rosh mashgichim was informed, nothing was done about it.

Anonymous said...

A kashrus agency is not a babysitting service if people dont want to be careful about bishul on shabbos a sign wouldnt do anything . This stuff is taught in elementary school everyone should know the laws

Anonymous said...

If the Matos issue is the spring wheat gluten that's used by the matzo bakeries and it's not Yoshon, Reb Yudel is awre of it for a number of years and Pupa Tzelim has yoshon spring wheat.

He doesn't know about the other chasidishe bakeries.

Gluten or Glutton? said...

If it was Yoshon then why did Pupa find it so difficult to give a straight answer when questioned?

Anonymous said...

We go to one of the Satmar crowd hotels that are advertised strictly in Yiddish language publications. Some of the oylam won't talk to the non-Chassidishe unless you shtam from the Interland AND the frierdik Rebbes held of your mishpocho. Or, if you are a Litvak like me who is talmid of Brisk, which it's quite amusing how much they admire Brisk as the only Litvisher (besides Rav Koppelman) who "get it". Besides all the verbal shvochim, I have literally had some of these chevra be magbiah my Brisker seforim to kiss them. They had a rather impressive range of Satmar matzos this year from 3 continents that even some of the Satmarers were not previously familiar with all of them. The bakery that makes the darkest matzos is the Zaloinim faction in KJ on Larkin Dr. Larkin is also the tastiest of the Satmar range. Satmar Bnei Brak was thinner than Larkin but not so well baked in appearance & taste. They might be reading this site because they did not use any Aroinim fleish produced in Postville.

Moshiach Now! said...

https://collive.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/chkpesachlist84.docx.pdf

Is anyone keeping an eye on the Chabadskers while they're operating at Pupa Tzailem?

Chodosh Fresser said...

How many years old is Pupa's "Yoshon" Spring wheat? It has to be at least 2 years old or else you've got a problem.