Why are so many Bnei Torah and choshuve Lakewood Youngerleit
carry and go with carriages and strollers on Shabbos. It seems it increased
exponentially since they started putting up signs in the last few years than
one should not carry in the Eruv on shabbos.
1. Halachic Background:
Lakewood's Eruv has long been subject to serious
halachic debate, particularly among senior poskim such as:
- Rav
Aharon Kotler zt”l was opposed to making an Eruv in Lakewood.
- Rav
Shneur Kotler zt”l and Rav Matisyahu Salomon shlita maintained
that the Eruv should not be relied upon.
Lakewood's Eruv is based on leniencies regarding:
- Whether
the streets meet the halachic status of a reshus harabbim d’Oraisa.
- The
acceptability of tzuras hapesach (posts and wires).
- Gaps
in fencing or natural borders, etc.
2. Why Do So Many Use
It Anyway?
Despite the strong halachic resistance by many Roshei
Yeshiva and local Rabbanim, more and more families do rely on it.
Here are key reasons:
A. Alternative Halachic Rulings
Exist
- Some
reputable Eruv experts and Rabbanim permit its use and even
maintain it l’mehadrin.
- Baalei
battim and even some yungerleit follow poskim outside BMG (e.g.,
the Eruv in Flatbush is also controversial but widely used).
B. Practical Pressure
- Young
families with many children, especially when both parents go to shul
or for meals, feel a strong need for strollers and diaper bags.
- Some
rationalize: “If I don't carry, I can't go to shul, or my wife will be
stuck home.”
C. Social Shifts
- Once
more people were seen using the Eruv, social pressure flipped.
Early users may have felt awkward, but now non-users feel they’re the
minority in many neighborhoods.
- Families
moving in from other cities with established Eruvin (Monsey,
Baltimore, etc.) often come with a default of using it.
D. Lack of Clear Messaging
- Many young
families were never told clearly why not to use the Eruv, or
believe it's a personal stringency and not a communal standard.
- Some
may be unaware that their Rebbeim do not rely on it.
3. The Effect of the
Signs
Why did use increase after the signs went up?
Many never realized that there was an Erev in Lakewood, but
when they see signs about the Erev, they don’t read the entire sign, just the
part that there is an Erev.
- Backfire
effect: Signs sometimes generate curiosity or a reaction of
independence. ("Why are they pushing this so hard?")
- Polarization:
It drew attention to the machlokes, and some decided to "side
with the lenient view."
- Visibility:
More people realized “everyone else is doing it,” even among Bnei Torah.
- Desensitization:
Once people saw choshuve families with strollers and bags, the
social hesitancy to carry faded.
4. The Reality Today
- Many choshuve
yungerleit carry not because they believe it's 100% mutar, but
because they feel stuck between values and realities.
- Others
genuinely rely on heterim from Rabbanim they trust.
- Some don’t
realize it’s still a serious issue to many Gedolim in Lakewood.
In Summary:
It’s a complex mix of halachic leniencies, practical
pressures, and changing communal norms. But just because “many are doing it”
does not mean it’s right or acceptable in the eyes of all poskim —
especially those connected to the mesorah.
22 comments:
If all these chusuvah mishpooches eat KCL what do expect ? That they should also follow other mitzvos in a lechatchilah fashion?
No way Jose.
Thus, we have cracks in Kashrus AND in shmiras Shabbos.
Let’s NOT bring up tahaaras hamishpacha issues.
That’s the 3rd and final part to a Jewish Orthodox home.
When Rabbanim are manipulated to sign kol Korehs they lose their ability to be taken seriously.
Thanks. I had no idea Lakewood had an Eruv.
Hashpuah from the Toms River crowd?
I imagine if Bavli was being written in Lakewood as opposed to Bavel, there would not have been a Mesechtas Eiruvin. Can you imagine if the Shas cycle was 105 days shorter? I wonder what other Mesechtos we could have just dropped too . If its ok, its OK. Why does everyone always have to push their frumkeit or krumkeit on everyone. If you don't want to carry, don't carry. And if you want to carry and there's an Eruv that your Rov says is Kosher, then by all means, carry!
Yungerleit are obviously only carrying with small neighborhood eiruvs and not with the “town wide” eiruv that doesn’t exist as far as we’re concerned.
Masechet Gitten is also not observed today.
Where can I find out more information about the townwide Eruv?
That is R' Yudel Shlita's point. Are all these young yungerlight being סומך on a Rov? Or are they carrying "because there's an Eiruv?"
It's become a hefker of sorts around here. There is barely a core establishment ווי א מאהל.
Article says Lakewood's Eruv has long been subject to serious halachic debate, particularly among senior poskim such as:
Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l was opposed to making an Eruv in Lakewood.
Rav Shneur Kotler zt”l and Rav Matisyahu Salomon shlita maintained that the Eruv should not be relied upon.
When there is a debate there is usually a Tzad Sheni. Who is the Tzad Sheni?
"If its ok, its OK. Why does everyone always have to"
The modox will give you a big pat on the back.You have expressed for them their basic policies down pat.Impressive.
Rather facetious that to justify carrying the Modern Orthodox are suddenly chassidim of Menashe Hakutton
These same people that carry on shabbos in lakewood and brooklyn are the same people who eat on these so called kosher cruises by hashgachas they never heard of and pesach programs as well wbicb is a yom tov that one should be even more carefull about kashrus .
People used to follow rav moshes responsa and not carry on shabbos in at least new york . Who carried on shabbos when i was growing up in the 70's and 80's . The women dont want to be forced to stay in the house the whole day with the kids so some rabbis had to reform the halacha to todays standards and the yungerleit go with the cofees and taleisim in the street with theor english translatiom gemarah on shabbos morning to shul
Maybe in lakewood but in new york they use the town wide eruv which is really quite shocking i guess they do it for shalom bayis so their wives could take the babies to shul with them shabbos morning
Tha same people who question eruvim from frum rabbonim here Lakewood also think that they are the final word in Halacha when all they sons choose and pick pesakim from non-Lakewood rabbonim who are usually not around to check out if what their quoting is just their interpretation of it or just outright lies.
Where says the Eriv is not knosher
This beating around the bush is the weird way of ‘You Know Who’ to massage his own guilty conscience about availing himself of the KG Eruv in Qveens
Lakewood is not Kletzk where you can force older women to stay locked up at home on Shabbat.
Let them date outside the freezer.
If the waste their learning time to go to the Philly concert then of course they’ll carry in any Eiruv.
They got to bring Nosh ( to be Mahlon 100 brachot) and their notes and their Seforim
to their chavrusas so they can shteig and shteig and shteig more until
the can put on the kaputa.
Modern orthodox found some kind of heterim for their wives not to cover their hair and to drenn not tznius excpecially in the summer time heat . Their rabbonim are too scared to say anything that could rock the boat and maybe put them out of a job
Nobody found a heter. The Modern Orthodox "Dayan" MIchael Broyde out of Atlanta was caught red handed using at least 2 aliases, "Rabbi David Keter" & "Hershel Goldwasser" to promote ziyufim. While pretending that Keter was an Amerikanner talmid of Eitz Chaim in the alter yishuv he managed to induce the OU to print fairy tales of frierdik gedolim including Rav Schach being "mattir" women not to cover their hair. R' Shlomo Miller correctly called it at the time that whoever these people are, they are liars on the level of Zacharias Frankel. Broyde was takkeh trying to pull a Frankel because his wife refuses to cover her hair. The OU removed Broyde from their BDA when he was finally outed but their boy Gilligan Student was still tying himself in knots trying to find an escape hatch for Broyde because he profits from publishing Broyde's kefirah.
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