Thursday, May 15, 2025

Why are so many Lakewood Yungerleit carrying and pushing strollers in Lakewood on Shabbos

Why are so many Bnei Torah and choshuve Lakewood Youngerleit carry and go with carriages and strollers on Shabbos. It seems it increased exponentially since they started putting up signs in the last few years than one should not carry in the Eruv on shabbos.

 1. Halachic Background:

Lakewood's Eruv has long been subject to serious halachic debate, particularly among senior poskim such as:

  • Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l was opposed to making an Eruv in Lakewood.
  • Rav Shneur Kotler zt”l and Rav Matisyahu Salomon shlita maintained that the Eruv should not be relied upon.

Lakewood's Eruv is based on leniencies regarding:

  • Whether the streets meet the halachic status of a reshus harabbim d’Oraisa.
  • The acceptability of tzuras hapesach (posts and wires).
  • Gaps in fencing or natural borders, etc.

 2. Why Do So Many Use It Anyway?

Despite the strong halachic resistance by many Roshei Yeshiva and local Rabbanim, more and more families do rely on it. Here are key reasons:

 A. Alternative Halachic Rulings Exist

  • Some reputable Eruv experts and Rabbanim permit its use and even maintain it l’mehadrin.
  • Baalei battim and even some yungerleit follow poskim outside BMG (e.g., the Eruv in Flatbush is also controversial but widely used).

 B. Practical Pressure

  • Young families with many children, especially when both parents go to shul or for meals, feel a strong need for strollers and diaper bags.
  • Some rationalize: “If I don't carry, I can't go to shul, or my wife will be stuck home.”

 C. Social Shifts

  • Once more people were seen using the Eruv, social pressure flipped. Early users may have felt awkward, but now non-users feel they’re the minority in many neighborhoods.
  • Families moving in from other cities with established Eruvin (Monsey, Baltimore, etc.) often come with a default of using it.

 D. Lack of Clear Messaging

  • Many young families were never told clearly why not to use the Eruv, or believe it's a personal stringency and not a communal standard.
  • Some may be unaware that their Rebbeim do not rely on it.

 3. The Effect of the Signs

Why did use increase after the signs went up?

Many never realized that there was an Erev in Lakewood, but when they see signs about the Erev, they don’t read the entire sign, just the part that there is an Erev.

  • Backfire effect: Signs sometimes generate curiosity or a reaction of independence. ("Why are they pushing this so hard?")
  • Polarization: It drew attention to the machlokes, and some decided to "side with the lenient view."
  • Visibility: More people realized “everyone else is doing it,” even among Bnei Torah.
  • Desensitization: Once people saw choshuve families with strollers and bags, the social hesitancy to carry faded.

 4. The Reality Today

  • Many choshuve yungerleit carry not because they believe it's 100% mutar, but because they feel stuck between values and realities.
  • Others genuinely rely on heterim from Rabbanim they trust.
  • Some don’t realize it’s still a serious issue to many Gedolim in Lakewood.

 In Summary:

It’s a complex mix of halachic leniencies, practical pressures, and changing communal norms. But just because “many are doing it” does not mean it’s right or acceptable in the eyes of all poskim — especially those connected to the  mesorah.

 


22 comments:

Anonymous said...

If all these chusuvah mishpooches eat KCL what do expect ? That they should also follow other mitzvos in a lechatchilah fashion?
No way Jose.
Thus, we have cracks in Kashrus AND in shmiras Shabbos.
Let’s NOT bring up tahaaras hamishpacha issues.
That’s the 3rd and final part to a Jewish Orthodox home.

ab said...

When Rabbanim are manipulated to sign kol Korehs they lose their ability to be taken seriously.

Heimish said...

Thanks. I had no idea Lakewood had an Eruv.

Romanisher Ferd said...

Hashpuah from the Toms River crowd?

Anonymous said...

I imagine if Bavli was being written in Lakewood as opposed to Bavel, there would not have been a Mesechtas Eiruvin. Can you imagine if the Shas cycle was 105 days shorter? I wonder what other Mesechtos we could have just dropped too . If its ok, its OK. Why does everyone always have to push their frumkeit or krumkeit on everyone. If you don't want to carry, don't carry. And if you want to carry and there's an Eruv that your Rov says is Kosher, then by all means, carry!

Anonymous said...

Yungerleit are obviously only carrying with small neighborhood eiruvs and not with the “town wide” eiruv that doesn’t exist as far as we’re concerned.

MiMedinat HaYam said...

Masechet Gitten is also not observed today.

Anonymous said...

Where can I find out more information about the townwide Eruv?

Anonymous said...

That is R' Yudel Shlita's point. Are all these young yungerlight being סומך on a Rov? Or are they carrying "because there's an Eiruv?"
It's become a hefker of sorts around here. There is barely a core establishment ווי א מאהל.

Anonymous said...

Article says Lakewood's Eruv has long been subject to serious halachic debate, particularly among senior poskim such as:

Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l was opposed to making an Eruv in Lakewood.
Rav Shneur Kotler zt”l and Rav Matisyahu Salomon shlita maintained that the Eruv should not be relied upon.

When there is a debate there is usually a Tzad Sheni. Who is the Tzad Sheni?

Cohen Y said...

"If its ok, its OK. Why does everyone always have to"
The modox will give you a big pat on the back.You have expressed for them their basic policies down pat.Impressive.

Srugie Watch said...

Rather facetious that to justify carrying the Modern Orthodox are suddenly chassidim of Menashe Hakutton

Anonymous said...

These same people that carry on shabbos in lakewood and brooklyn are the same people who eat on these so called kosher cruises by hashgachas they never heard of and pesach programs as well wbicb is a yom tov that one should be even more carefull about kashrus .

Anonymous said...

People used to follow rav moshes responsa and not carry on shabbos in at least new york . Who carried on shabbos when i was growing up in the 70's and 80's . The women dont want to be forced to stay in the house the whole day with the kids so some rabbis had to reform the halacha to todays standards and the yungerleit go with the cofees and taleisim in the street with theor english translatiom gemarah on shabbos morning to shul

Anonymous said...

Maybe in lakewood but in new york they use the town wide eruv which is really quite shocking i guess they do it for shalom bayis so their wives could take the babies to shul with them shabbos morning

Anonymous said...

Tha same people who question eruvim from frum rabbonim here Lakewood also think that they are the final word in Halacha when all they sons choose and pick pesakim from non-Lakewood rabbonim who are usually not around to check out if what their quoting is just their interpretation of it or just outright lies.

Anonymous said...

Where says the Eriv is not knosher

Anonymous said...

This beating around the bush is the weird way of ‘You Know Who’ to massage his own guilty conscience about availing himself of the KG Eruv in Qveens

Anonymous said...

Lakewood is not Kletzk where you can force older women to stay locked up at home on Shabbat.
Let them date outside the freezer.

Anonymous said...

If the waste their learning time to go to the Philly concert then of course they’ll carry in any Eiruv.
They got to bring Nosh ( to be Mahlon 100 brachot) and their notes and their Seforim
to their chavrusas so they can shteig and shteig and shteig more until
the can put on the kaputa.

Anonymous said...

Modern orthodox found some kind of heterim for their wives not to cover their hair and to drenn not tznius excpecially in the summer time heat . Their rabbonim are too scared to say anything that could rock the boat and maybe put them out of a job

Hairy Modern Ortho Kerfuffle said...

Nobody found a heter. The Modern Orthodox "Dayan" MIchael Broyde out of Atlanta was caught red handed using at least 2 aliases, "Rabbi David Keter" & "Hershel Goldwasser" to promote ziyufim. While pretending that Keter was an Amerikanner talmid of Eitz Chaim in the alter yishuv he managed to induce the OU to print fairy tales of frierdik gedolim including Rav Schach being "mattir" women not to cover their hair. R' Shlomo Miller correctly called it at the time that whoever these people are, they are liars on the level of Zacharias Frankel. Broyde was takkeh trying to pull a Frankel because his wife refuses to cover her hair. The OU removed Broyde from their BDA when he was finally outed but their boy Gilligan Student was still tying himself in knots trying to find an escape hatch for Broyde because he profits from publishing Broyde's kefirah.