Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Update: Tropicana Orange Juice Teshuva

Copies available Subject-Tropicana

All of the trained or semi-trained all saw " whole-insects".

The fragments, parts, fruit parts, etc. bubbah- mai'sis are the fabrications of the OK et al.


Anonymous said...

Didn't know that Reb Yudel still considers himself "Toshav Monsey" .

Anonymous said...

Where would monsey be today without Yudel? If yudel would still be a toshuv monsey, a finkel, kyo, etc. wouldn't have happened.

gair vi'toishuv?

Anonymous said...

Just wait until the Yated finds out about this latest chapter in the Rubashkin saga. Debbie Maimon will write a hysterical article that the Federal system of putting insolvent banks in receivership is corrupt & dysfunctional. And Pinny Lipschutz will organize another "Hatzolas Rubashkin" shnorrfest.

Ploni said...

"Toshav Monsey"

If you only knew what 3 of the 4 major hashgochos (OU, OK, Star K) do to retaliate against people who are mefarsem on their blunders, you wouldn't sign your name on that synopsis either.

Anonymous said...

Now that Rav Eckstein certifies Oh Nuts!, do they still have all those items from before that are prone to insect infestation?

This will be the probber if he is the reliable hashgocho everyone thought he was or if he is another case of what Yudel once hilariously described on someone else as something like "Star K mit shmoyna begudim".

Yated-gemeiner said...

It started with Rubashkin and Pinny is now overcome with Chabad-mania.

I can't believe that he just gave recognition in the Yated to the Lubavitcher yomtov of the alter Rebbe being released from prison.

Next thing you know he will be strolling down Route 59 in a pinched hat.

Ma Rabbi said...

You are mistaken in your understanding of the Ramah Simon 98.
The Ramah is talking about a case where you can recognize the Ossur.
Ex a piece of Chazer got mixed into a stew with 1000 pieces of beef.
If the piece of chazer can be recognized, you must remove it before eating the stew. In the orange juice the bug fragments are not visible to the naked eye.I have been drinking orange juice for many years and have never seen a fragment in my glass.
You are correct that if someone does in fact see it he has to remove it.

Ma Rabbi said...

Actually I wrote my previous comment before looking it up.
The Ramah is talking about a case where some milk fell into a pot of stew less than 1/60. The Ramah says to add cold water which will cause the milk to come to the surface and then remove the milk.
This is still NOT the same as the orange juice. In the case of the Ramah we know for certain that milk fell into the stew.
In the orange juice only a minority of bottles have bug fragments. Therefore, it is not the same at all.

Yudel Shain said...

The fact is "every bottle" has insects.

Toshav Monsey said...

The fact that you said the Ramah is talking about milk and not fat shows you are using Google Translate or some other app to read the Ramah. Even though there are Achronim that say the Ramah is talking about milk any one who has a Torah background would say milk according to ???, since they are deviating from the norm.Secondly all the achronim Taz Shach etc say the Ramah is only talking where the milk/fat fell into mixture where there was more then 1/60 i.e. 1/1000. It is obvious that you are at best a beginner and are trying to understand what is going on here even though it is way above your skill set. I do not have any expertise writing for someone at your level but I do not want to hurt your feelings and ignore you. So I will try.
The purpose of quoting the Ramah was to establish a Halachah that there is no Bitul on anything that can be removed from the mixture. Therefore scale bug parts in orange juice are never Mutar since they can be strained out. If one were to know there are scale bug parts in a container of orange juice and he were to drink it he would be violating an Issur Doraisoh of Chatzi Shiur. This is what the Ramah is saying.
This translates practically to the following. If we have a 100 containers of orange juice and we know statistically that 10 of them contain scale bug parts we are not allowed to drink any one of the 100 without straining. If one were to drink any one of the 100 without straining he would be in violation of the Issur Drabonon of not being Bodek in a situation where there is a Miute Hamotzei. If we have 100 containers of orange juice and statistically 51 contain scale bug parts. If one were to drink from any one of the containers he would be in violation of the Issur Doraisoh of Chatzi Shiur. Unfortunately the statistics coming in for finding scale bug parts are much much higher then 51%. Therefore nobody should be drinking any orange juice without straining.
In regards to you first post quoting your Rabbi's Psak that everything is OK since you can not see the scale bug parts. If you look a little bit further in the Ramah you will see that the Ramah summarizes as follows
דמאחר דאפשר להסירו הוי כאילו מכירו
וצריך להסירו
This translates as follows "since it can be removed it is equivalent to an item which is recognizable therefore it has to be removed." The Ramah only makes sense if he is referring to something which is not recognizable then the ability to remove it assigns it a status equal to something which is recognizable. If it is already recognizable why do we have to assign it a status of recognizable. The Ramah should use the exact opposite in his phrase. "Since it is recognizable we have to remove it." Therefore a proper reading of the Rama gives the exact opposite results of what your Rabbi has said.
I do not think you will be able to understand these Halachas as a do it yourselfer. You should go to a Yeshiva and find an Avreich to teach this to you. If you live out of town please send an email and I will try to find some one to tutor you over the phone.
As for your Rabbi it has been shown to you that he is definitely not in the category of הגיע להוראה It is now incumbent on you to do the following 1> Make a list of all questions which you have asked him and all of his Psokim that you follow. Find someone who is הגיע להוראה resubmit them to this Rav.
2> Hang up the Tshuvah and this response on the bulletin board in your Shul. If this is not possible then email it to the members of the Shul. You must do your best to stop the dissemination of this invalid Psak.

Anonymous said...

when you filter the oj are the insects the only things that remain or are there small bits of orange pulp left behind with scale parts mixed in? If the latter is the case, is that called efshar l'hasiro being that it is still meurav with pulp?

Anonymous said...

Horav Toshav Monsey shlita,

Could you possibly write your original letter + your latest comment all in lashon kodesh to have posted here as well?

I would like to give this to some chassidishe rabbonim who unfortunately not all of them take things seriously if they happen to be written in English.

Yasher koyach

Anonymous said...

get the picture straight! yudel is out the hurt the OK at any price more clearer: its litvak vs. lubavitch !!! period!!!

Ma Rabbi said...

Reply to Toshav Monsey
1 I am not a beginner. I am a Rav with Semicha from Rav Moshe.
2 I did NOT google it. I looked it up in Shulchan Aruch.
3 The Ramah writes clearly "cholov" which means milk.
4 The Ramah writes that the Taam of the milk was "botul sheyshem" which means there was at least 60 times as much as the milk.
5 The Shach and Taz both write that if it were less than 60 then pouring in the cold water would not help.
6 As I wrote previously, the case of the Ramah we know for certain that the milk fell into the stew.We do not know for sure that there are bug fragments in the orange juice.
7 Yudel Shain replied that we do know for sure that there are bugs in the juice. He MAY be correct,
8 It comes down to a question of the facts. Some are saying that only a minority of bottles have bug fragments. Yudel is saying that every bottle has bug fragments. I do not know who is correct.

Anonymous said...

Yudel is out to expose hashgochos that have played games & cover up in the past.

If that is called "hurting" the hashgocho and if he happens to be a Litvak and the hashgochos sometimes happen to be run by Lubavitchers, then so be it.

Anonymous said...

R Don yoel Levy once told yudel that Don yoel's children were circumcised by a Lubavith mohel, is it kosher?

Yudel responded I'll do "hatofas-daam" on all of them. I guess they couldn't find a sandek. Rabbis Ekstein & Weismandel will be sandek.

In the mean time yes sandek or no sandek, yudel is the midst of doing hatofas daam.

Anonymous said...

All of these chasidish or as you call them heimish read english very well.

Give them for their hashgocha less money, they'll lynch you.

All checks are written in english, cash, is english, contracts are in english....far drei nisht kein kup.

Anonymous said...

"circumcised by a Lubavith mohel"

The Lubacith mohel is Eliyahu Shain. None other then Reb Yudels BROTHER.
The father of ther Rabbi @ Chabad in Palisades, NJ.

Yudel got PLENTY of Lubavich blood relatives the issue is that there is a difference between Chabad (old timers) & lubavitch (the newbies such as Eliyahu etc)

Anonymous said...

Of course they read English. That's not what their issue is. It's their issues, not mine. They think that only moderner write halacha teshuvos in English.