Sunday, December 25, 2016

Note: ALL Cholov Stam / Cholov Akum =(besides Germany) CHOLOV TREIFE! R'L- The consumer has nothing to rely on


RE: Cholov Stam-Cholov Akum is actually חלב טריף Per Reb Moshe, Z"L Rav Eliyashev Z"L and Rav Shmuel Wosner Z"L.

Rav Moshe Feinstein in Y"D 1, #20-21 [End of #21 ]states that these procedures make the cow a treifah [and one may not purchase from such a farmer]. Today with the farms in the USA keeping accurate records, all cholov akum (stam) is actually treif. (The procedured cows are 4-8%, shishim is 1.66+-%)
The European Hashgochas mistakenly believe that they don't have the problem because the Veterinarians say "in Europe we don't have those problems". The cold facts are that europe has the problem just as much as the USA.

We and others spoke to the European vets & vet. associations re the procedures. The proclaimed that an incidence of 1-2% for each type of procedure is considered "we don't have the problem". There are 2-3 common procedures that will render a cow a treifah, so we have 4-6% of procedures in europe that make the cow a treifah. Therefore their milk ic cholv treifah. We understand that not all of the European Cholov Yisroel hashgochas remove the procedured cows, so even their cholov yisroel is cholov treif. This affects their chocolate bars as well.
From the step by step procedure manual for DA's.
Perforate the abdominal wall and the abomasum with a swift downward push of the trocar.
Use the push rod to move the toggle COMPLETELY through the length of the needle so that it will turn perpendicular to the long axis of the needle once in the abomasal lumen.

9. Before removing the trocar needle from the second suture site, place pressure on the external abdominal wall to force as much free gas from the abomasum as possible. This will reduce the tension on the sutures and help to reduce the chance of tearing the abomasal wall or leaking abomasal contents into the peritoneal cavity.
* * * * * * *
There are numerous veterinarian procedures that make a milking cow a "Treife". The procedures include what is commonly known as "DA"'s, "C" section, Bloating etc. All of the Major Poiskim in the USA & Eretz Yisroel including Rav S. Eliyashev, Shlita ruled that it is a "treife" & the milk may not be consumed.

In the Cholov-Yisroel farms, the contracted system is to remove them from the herd & be compensated for the loss. On the other hand by the Cholov Stam-Cholov Akum farms there is no system in place to have them removed.

Any milk product produced from a "treife" is to be considered "non-kosher" & may not be used.
There was a mistaken assumption that the major kosher certifiers were relying on an *unfinished "teshuva" from a Rav . * The unfinished Teshuva was writteen some 14 years ago.

There were many Factual & Halachik issues with the unfinished Teshuva. The Rav ended the teshuva with a "Hem'shech-yo'voi" (to be continued), to attempt to rectify the factual & Halachik dificulties.

The Rav recently decided that there is nothing more to add to the Teshuva not factual & not Halachikly. The kosher certifiers & the consumers can't rely on an unfinished teshuva "that is never going to be completed". (especially when there are still unresolved serious factual & Halachik assumptions ). In retrospect "how did any one ever rely on an unfinished teshuvah"??

Rav Eliyashev recently told Reb Yudel Shain "one may not rely on that Ravs HETEIRIM including the heter of the operated cows that they aren't a treifah". Rav Eliyashev said further the cows are to be considered a treifah & any farm that doesn't remove them from the herd, you may not use the milk.

So we remain with the Psak of all of the Major Poiskim "all of the CHOLOV STAM & CHOLOV AKUMUM is "ossur" and not permitted to be used".
What is a DA?

I. Left Displaced Abomasum and Its TreatmentThe primary cause of the problem requiring surgical intervention for its correction is apparently the diet provided dairy cows in order to increase the cows’ production of milk.
3 Housing cows in short stalls may be an aggravating factor since cows confined in such stalls may experience difficulty in rising to their feet. Struggling to rise may cause a malposition of an already dilated abomasum. The problem appears to be virtually non-existent in countries such as Australia and New Zealand where cattle are not normally fed grain but are simply allowed to graze in unconfined pastures.
4 The high carbohydrate diet provided in this country, or perhaps the accompanying reduction in consumption of grass, results in a high concentration of unabsorbed free fatty acids which decrease motility of the smooth muscle of the cow’s fourth stomach, the keivah or abomasum. As motility decreases, gas formation is increased by the liberation of carbon dioxide from the reaction between rumen bicarbonate and abomasal hydrochloric acid. As a result the abomasum becomes filled with gas. The abomasum normally lies to the right of the ventral midline along the abdominal wall. When distended by gas, the abomasum may become displaced and move to the left flank between the rumen and the body wall. As the distorted abomasum rises and moves out of place it may also become twisted at the point of connection of the abomasum to the intestine. In both its rising and twisting the abomasum behaves in a manner similar to a balloon filled with air. This twisting of the abomasum interferes with the free flow of the contents of the abomasum into the duodenum and the intestines. If the condition is not treated, the cow will stop eating and its milk production will decline drastically or it will suffer torsion displacement of the abomasum and die. Corrective treatment of this condition consists of anchoring the abomasum in its proper place.

Left displaced abomasum (LDA), as the condition is known, was first recognized in 1950. Since then the diagnosis has been made with increasing frequency. Professionals in the field report that it is their impression that surgical correction of LDA has become much more common in recent years.
 It is thus not entirely surprising that rabbinic authorities remained unaware until recently of what has now become a relatively high incidence of surgical treatment to correct this condition that causes the animal to become a treifah. The incidence of LDA is the subject of a recent study by Dr. Steven Eicker of Cornell University’s New York State College of Veterinary Medicine in Ithaca, New York. His study of some 13,000 cows on 26 farms in New York State shows a variation between farms in the occurrence of left displaced abomasum of between five and fifteen percent. The mean for the farms surveyed is between seven and eight percent.
None of the farms surveyed showed a prevalence of less than five percent. "Shishim" is 1.67%

NOTE: November 28th, 2010-The NEWER procedures including the German, swiss methods all make it a "treifah".


Anonymous said...

You are a Miise Mentsch for putting this up today.

Anonymous said...


Gelt Fresser said...

Chof K just started certifying skillet sauce for chicken fajitas that is Chof K-Fish.

Kashrus-wise it is completely useless for the purpose which is nothing but a greedy money grab, genaivas daas on the manufacturer Ortega, and worst of all it is machshil freya Yidden who are trying to keep kosher but do not know you cannot mix fish with meat / chicken.

Anonymous said...

So why do you let bingo and gg in bp sell it

Anonymous said...

After how many years of giving milk do they do this procedure? Shishim is cheshboned in terms of the milk , not the cows. The cows are not the ta'aroves but rather the milk is. So every cow that has this procedure performed, also had years if kosher milk.

Unknown said...

I can't understand the comments. Yudel is 100% right. There is no heter and the only one the kosher agencies are fooling are themselves. The Torah says taht a perforation if the abomasum renders an animal a terefah. There is no shishim for the milk and even bdieved (you are not allowed to mix the milk and that is enough to prohibit it) it is chazir teref. So, what is anyone angry at Yudel. We should be thanking him. And, yes even the cholov yisrael people can cheat. They also need the money.

Not a kosher cop said...

BTW There is no such thing as cholov stam. There is stam yenom. The gemoroh calls it cholov akum and Reb Moshe calls it cholov companies. The term stam was invented by the layman to make the issur sound less important.

Anonymous said...

"There is no heter"

Not really true but the OU-Belsky are mufrach regardless.

I did not see the teshuvos but I have heard that R' Chatzkel Roth shlita as well as a posek in Eretz Yisroel have a mehalech that DA is not treif.

The reason why Belsky is still mufrach is because he holds the cows are treif but then drays a kop that their milk is not. THAT is something that is IMPOSSIBLE lechol hadeyos! Rabbonim have sat with Belsky for hours, each, about this and come out saying the man made zero sense.

Anonymous said...

So what's your response to this svara?
"After how many years of giving milk do they do this procedure? Shishim is cheshboned in terms of the milk , not the cows. The cows are not the ta'aroves but rather the milk is. So every cow that has this procedure performed, also had years if kosher milk."

Anonymous said...

Rav Roth's pesak had to do with the left over cheese. He never advocated a heter to use the milk that came from the cow after we learned the facts of DA. This is called ein mevatlim issur lechatchila. To boot there is no shishim. Also, let me add that the heter is not perfect. It was based on a doubt if the needle penetrated the abomasum. This is untrue for the most popular one the toggle button. Hence, that cheese is assur. I pointed this out to Rav Roth when the sheeloh arose.

If there is a teshuva from EY let us see it.

BTW R. belsky is a consultant to the OU. This means a person not part of an organization that says what you want to hear. Remember, this is big business.

Anonymous said...

bitul bshishim is only if something fell into something that should not be there. Many poskim say that if it is an ingredient then shishim does not help. The OU and all the kashrus agencies brag that they do not rely on bitul nor should we.

Anonymous said...

Someone said.

"After how many years of giving milk do they do this procedure? Shishim is cheshboned in terms of the milk , not the cows. The cows are not the ta'aroves but rather the milk is. So every cow that has this procedure performed, also had years if kosher milk."

I do not follow. They mix all the milk from every cow (that they can) in the herd at one time.
But that herd has 4% teref cows. So, there is no shishim that day and each and every. Your cheshbon is the same cow's mil all together. They don't do that.

.. said...

Its called כל דפריש מרובא פריש so i was wrong about the שישים you would only need a רוב. Just curious where number 4 % comes from? % might be a number given for all cows but like I pointed out that the most of the milk from most of the cow's whole lives is kosher milk.

Anonymous said...

I am glad you brought up "kol deporush.." This point has to be explained. Good point. In every herd we know that there is at least 4% of the animals that are terefah (or even sofek terefah). It is a natural thing for many of the animals to get DA after a calving. The rule is that bale chayim are not botel and hence we can not apply kol deporish if we can easily examine the animal and tell if it is a (sofek) terefah. (and, we can since the animals are tagged and the farmers must keep records and to boot there are scars to be seen easily) If you do not and milk and mix we have violated bitul issur even if there was shishim (which there is not) and we are enjoined from drinking that milk. Heterim were discussed at the time it was discovered for the left over cheese - beshogeg. This does not help us today. They did not know-we do. This concept is called kovuah derabanan (look up Yoreh Deah 110)