Well, I've never been in a vineyard, but I would surmise from glasses of wine that I've savored that the workers must have flicked off with their thumbs any bugs on grapes. These Skver & Satmar chevra that are shilling for R' Yudel, exactly what methods were they using to detect bugs?
I just off conference call with Rabbeinu Chaim Schwartz and Reish kol bnei galusa R' Yoel Schonfeld. There is no way we can be goiress this even if true. All this will do is make life more difficult for people with OCD that were considering becoming nazirim for life.
a yeshivishe rov told me this week he doesn't want to hear anymore kashrus updates because most is from vilde kanoyim trying to manufacture problems. He said the final straw was last week a chassidisher was running around lakewood trying to possel all the (non-krohn) bris milos because he taynas that mohelim are not cutting enough off
You must have been drinking too much on the job...
Who says that the grapes need to be checked before they're crushed and made into wine? The grapes are not checked at all! The bugs are filtered out afterwards.
FORD: On holidays and the Sabbath, Rabbi Hemen Fuentes can be found doing services for the schools of foreign Jews living in Beijing. When he arrived five years ago to set up Beijing's Jewish community, he estimates China only had about a hundred kosher factories. Now, the number has soared tenfold to a thousand or more. The problem, he says, is there are only five rabbis living in China authorized to do kosher inspections.
FORD: But he's optimistic. China's demand for certification is growing so fast he says he can now afford to pay rabbis more than they could earn in the United States. In Beijing, I'm Jocelyn Ford for MARKETPLACE.
Now, all of a sudden Skever becomes the standard in Kashrus? The avie avois of Chillul Hashem in America and you want to use them as your standard? I am surprised in you Rabbi Shain
Read the letter , it says the decision of the meeting was to do more research before issuing a psak .Don't understand why this letter was put out altogether . Just to create hype ??? !!!
Any truth to the rumor that Skver is negotiating to pay Rottenberg $2 million to make the criminal & civil cases against the Rebbe go away? The hashgocho fees would go up oib azoi as the money has to come from somewhere.
Anonymous wrote: Oib kokakola is gevain traif alle yooren val es iz doo 'snace dshuice' inevainke, oib azoi helft doch nish filtereng. =============================== איך ווייס נישט פארוואס איהר קענט נישט שרייבען אין ענגלישער ווערטער. איז עס פאראהן עפעס אן איסור אין דעם? איז שרייבען אידישע ווערטער אין גויישע אותיות בעסער?
איהר זאלט מיר אנטשולדיגען, אבער אייערע פראגע וייזט אז איהר האט נאך נישט אנגעהויבן צו פארשטיין די ענינים אין יורה דעה. דער אינטערנעט איז נישט קיין טויש פאר לערנען אין א ישיבה. איהר דארפט זיך געפינען א תלמיד חכם וואס וועט אייך מסביר זיין די אונטרשייד פון אן "אינגרדיענט" וואס מען וויל זאל אריינגעבען א גוטען טעם אין דעם פראדוקט, להבדיל פון ווערמלאך און אנדערע קריכינישען וואס מען איז נישט פאראינטערסירט אז זייער טעם זאל בלייבען אין אין די פרודוקט.
Who knew that the resident caring (and well spoken) mashgiach is multi-lingual?
Not withstanding, our resident "Yinglish" speaker may be on to a concept or two about Coca Cola.
The original rav hamachshir of Coca Cola was the moderne alter Slabodker in Atlanta, Rabbi "Tobias" (Tuvya) Geffen. Er iz geven a Mizrachist that was way too cozy with the Reform & Conservative. He came to give a brucha at the groundbreaking for the Reform temple in Atlanta (his nusach brucha is on file at AJHS) and he spoke at a JTS semicha ceremony in 1965 where two of his grandsons graduated. His own shul abolished it's mechitzah in 1957. He did not quit the shul although he started his own minyan in a smaller chapel with no women.
AJHS archives reveal that Rav Geffen finally got permission from Coke to examine their ingredients which he found to contain non-kosher glycerin. There were already rabbonim in several cities being machshir Coke, which continued, even though they had no access to the ingredient list! Rav Pardes in Chicago who was already certifying it wrote to Rav Geffen in 1931 that he heard Rav Geffen holds it is treif and told him he must prove it. There was some kind of debate as to different findings from chemical analysis. Eventually, Rav Geffen impressed on the Reform Jew who Coke's VP & Chief Counsel to stop using meat glycerin. They started using a glycerin which Proctor & Gamble assured was of vegetable origin. In 1957, R' Lazer Silver assered drinking Coke because there was no hashgocho at P&G and R' Lazer believe the vegetable version was contaminated with treif.
In the 50'S & 60'S there were a lot of sheineh yidden associated with the conservative jews. It was way before the gedoilim came out with a issur against them. The reason was they were not "known" yet for their real goals. The european Rabbonim thought of them as modern jews.
Today, 60 -70 years later, we know (through the insight of our gedoilim)who they really are.
Hence, it is unfair to classify any of those old Rabbonim based on their relation with the conservative jews.
You probebly owe an apology to those Rabbis who you just smeared.
You've got to be kidding. The Conservative in America are an offshoot of the Neologgen who the Chasam Sofer and many gedolei oylam came out against b'tkifus.
Rabbonim knew exactly what the Conservative were up to with no mechitzos and microphones, driving on Shabbos and being koifer in Torah miSinai which is part of the Conservative constitution.
Do you think you are fooling anyone with your just "modern Jews" downplay?
Rabbi Geffen has some other descendants around who did not become Conservative. They include modern orthodox rabbis and I think one of them owned a major kosher company (cholov stam) that bears his name. Is that who is talking?
I've heard of "snake oil", but what is "snace dshuice"?
Some urban legend has it that "kokakola" contains beaver muck!
A translation of Rabbi Geffen's teshuva can be found here: http://hebrewbooks.org/2227
I think that the general issue there was if the treif ingredient is considereda מילתא דעבידא לטעמא.
In wine-making, there is no interest whatsoever in the טעם of the bugs. However, I did read that some hold that lechatchila the grapes should be rinsed before they're crushed. We'll wait to hear from the "Baron Herzog Mashgiach" to verify for us, what the procedure there is.
While on the general subject of wine making, I take the liberty to add, that rather than being concerned about some bug juice which might be mixed into the wine, I'd be more concerned about people with "bugs in their heads" (ie. דעות כוזבות ואפיקורסיות), who may have access to the wine before it's mevushal. I don't have any brand in particular in mind, but from what I've read and heard there some to be some need for concern in this area... Does anybody out there have more information on this subject?
When I was in Lakewood there were chassidishe who, perhaps because of the chumros on the temperature of bishul, were going beserk over the kiddush vein being in the presence of the Poilishe goyim in the dining room. They had other problems as well like even sealed bottles in a tinted glass were not good enough because the goyim could see the outline of liquid. I guess that's al pi kabolo. A few of the chassidishe were running around very uptight to hide bottles under tablecloths, including the oversized 1.5 liter ones which were standing upright. That left part of table uncovered so that the large bottles were concealed.
Rabbi Geffen has a grandson Stanley Raskas. Is that the Stanley Raskas from the Raskas OU-D cream cheese company from the Midwest or the one who was an early rabbi of Young Israel of Scarsdale, or is it the same person?
23 comments:
Oh, ah, never mind.
Well, I've never been in a vineyard, but I would surmise from glasses of wine that I've savored that the workers must have flicked off with their thumbs any bugs on grapes. These Skver & Satmar chevra that are shilling for R' Yudel, exactly what methods were they using to detect bugs?
When our great grandchildren will speak to each other & say in the olden days when raisins & grapes were Kosher, our ancestors made kidush on wine.
I just off conference call with Rabbeinu Chaim Schwartz and Reish kol bnei galusa R' Yoel Schonfeld. There is no way we can be goiress this even if true. All this will do is make life more difficult for people with OCD that were considering becoming nazirim for life.
a yeshivishe rov told me this week he doesn't want to hear anymore kashrus updates because most is from vilde kanoyim trying to manufacture problems. He said the final straw was last week a chassidisher was running around lakewood trying to possel all the (non-krohn) bris milos because he taynas that mohelim are not cutting enough off
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9c0Bz0DFzTE/TxmYfl8xK2I/AAAAAAAAHYE/oom6VBKAnfo/s1600/ami+willi+ban.jpg
Satmar cherem against Avi Shafran's "maskilishe" Ami Magazine.
Baron Herzog Mashgiach,
You must have been drinking too much on the job...
Who says that the grapes need to be checked before they're crushed and made into wine? The grapes are not checked at all! The bugs are filtered out afterwards.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49870&pgnum=33
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?topic=1007534.0;wap2
National Public Radio
FORD: On holidays and the Sabbath, Rabbi Hemen Fuentes can be found doing services for the schools of foreign Jews living in Beijing. When he arrived five years ago to set up Beijing's Jewish community, he estimates China only had about a hundred kosher factories. Now, the number has soared tenfold to a thousand or more. The problem, he says, is there are only five rabbis living in China authorized to do kosher inspections.
FORD: But he's optimistic. China's demand for certification is growing so fast he says he can now afford to pay rabbis more than they could earn in the United States. In Beijing, I'm Jocelyn Ford for MARKETPLACE.
Now, all of a sudden Skever becomes the standard in Kashrus? The avie avois of Chillul Hashem in America and you want to use them as your standard?
I am surprised in you Rabbi Shain
Read the letter , it says the decision of the meeting was to do more research before issuing a psak .Don't understand why this letter was put out altogether . Just to create hype ??? !!!
Any truth to the rumor that Skver is negotiating to pay Rottenberg $2 million to make the criminal & civil cases against the Rebbe go away? The hashgocho fees would go up oib azoi as the money has to come from somewhere.
does this mean that it is assur to have any cookbook with a recipe for grape salad in my home (as per the posek shain's psak)
The bugs are filtered out afterwards.
Oib kokakola is gevain traif alle yooren val es iz doo 'snace dshuice' inevainke, oib azoi helft doch nish filtereng.
I am surprised in you Rabbi Shain
They threatened to fire bomb his house so he let it on his blog.
The letter says that the chief mashgiach found bugs for months, in all grapes, from all sources. Yet, there is no psak. Something not right here.
Anonymous wrote:
Oib kokakola is gevain traif alle yooren val es iz doo 'snace dshuice' inevainke, oib azoi helft doch nish filtereng.
===============================
איך ווייס נישט פארוואס איהר קענט נישט שרייבען אין ענגלישער ווערטער. איז עס פאראהן עפעס אן איסור אין דעם? איז שרייבען אידישע ווערטער אין גויישע אותיות בעסער?
איהר זאלט מיר אנטשולדיגען, אבער אייערע פראגע וייזט אז איהר האט נאך נישט אנגעהויבן צו פארשטיין די ענינים אין יורה דעה. דער אינטערנעט איז נישט קיין טויש פאר לערנען אין א ישיבה. איהר דארפט זיך געפינען א תלמיד חכם וואס וועט אייך מסביר זיין די אונטרשייד פון אן "אינגרדיענט" וואס מען וויל זאל אריינגעבען א גוטען טעם אין דעם פראדוקט, להבדיל פון ווערמלאך און אנדערע קריכינישען וואס מען איז נישט פאראינטערסירט אז זייער טעם זאל בלייבען אין אין די פרודוקט.
Who knew that the resident caring (and well spoken) mashgiach is multi-lingual?
Not withstanding, our resident "Yinglish" speaker may be on to a concept or two about Coca Cola.
The original rav hamachshir of Coca Cola was the moderne alter Slabodker in Atlanta, Rabbi "Tobias" (Tuvya) Geffen. Er iz geven a Mizrachist that was way too cozy with the Reform & Conservative. He came to give a brucha at the groundbreaking for the Reform temple in Atlanta (his nusach brucha is on file at AJHS) and he spoke at a JTS semicha ceremony in 1965 where two of his grandsons graduated. His own shul abolished it's mechitzah in 1957. He did not quit the shul although he started his own minyan in a smaller chapel with no women.
AJHS archives reveal that Rav Geffen finally got permission from Coke to examine their ingredients which he found to contain non-kosher glycerin. There were already rabbonim in several cities being machshir Coke, which continued, even though they had no access to the ingredient list! Rav Pardes in Chicago who was already certifying it wrote to Rav Geffen in 1931 that he heard Rav Geffen holds it is treif and told him he must prove it. There was some kind of debate as to different findings from chemical analysis. Eventually, Rav Geffen impressed on the Reform Jew who Coke's VP & Chief Counsel to stop using meat glycerin. They started using a glycerin which Proctor & Gamble assured was of vegetable origin. In 1957, R' Lazer Silver assered drinking Coke because there was no hashgocho at P&G and R' Lazer believe the vegetable version was contaminated with treif.
I misspoke. Rav Geffen was not the original rav hamachshir. He is perceived by most to be the original.
Just the facts, man
In the 50'S & 60'S there were a lot of sheineh yidden associated with the conservative jews. It was way before the gedoilim came out with a issur against them. The reason was they were not "known" yet for their real goals.
The european Rabbonim thought of them as modern jews.
Today, 60 -70 years later, we know (through the insight of our gedoilim)who they really are.
Hence, it is unfair to classify any of those old Rabbonim based on their relation with the conservative jews.
You probebly owe an apology to those Rabbis who you just smeared.
You've got to be kidding. The Conservative in America are an offshoot of the Neologgen who the Chasam Sofer and many gedolei oylam came out against b'tkifus.
Rabbonim knew exactly what the Conservative were up to with no mechitzos and microphones, driving on Shabbos and being koifer in Torah miSinai which is part of the Conservative constitution.
Do you think you are fooling anyone with your just "modern Jews" downplay?
Rabbi Geffen has some other descendants around who did not become Conservative. They include modern orthodox rabbis and I think one of them owned a major kosher company (cholov stam) that bears his name. Is that who is talking?
I've heard of "snake oil", but what is "snace dshuice"?
Some urban legend has it that "kokakola" contains beaver muck!
A translation of Rabbi Geffen's teshuva can be found here:
http://hebrewbooks.org/2227
I think that the general issue there was if the treif ingredient is considereda מילתא דעבידא לטעמא.
In wine-making, there is no interest whatsoever in the טעם of the bugs. However, I did read that some hold that lechatchila the grapes should be rinsed before they're crushed. We'll wait to hear from the "Baron Herzog Mashgiach" to verify for us, what the procedure there is.
While on the general subject of wine making, I take the liberty to add, that rather than being concerned about some bug juice which might be mixed into the wine, I'd be more concerned about people with "bugs in their heads" (ie. דעות כוזבות ואפיקורסיות), who may have access to the wine before it's mevushal. I don't have any brand in particular in mind, but from what I've read and heard there some to be some need for concern in this area... Does anybody out there have more information on this subject?
When I was in Lakewood there were chassidishe who, perhaps because of the chumros on the temperature of bishul, were going beserk over the kiddush vein being in the presence of the Poilishe goyim in the dining room. They had other problems as well like even sealed bottles in a tinted glass were not good enough because the goyim could see the outline of liquid. I guess that's al pi kabolo. A few of the chassidishe were running around very uptight to hide bottles under tablecloths, including the oversized 1.5 liter ones which were standing upright. That left part of table uncovered so that the large bottles were concealed.
Rabbi Geffen has a grandson Stanley Raskas. Is that the Stanley Raskas from the Raskas OU-D cream cheese company from the Midwest or the one who was an early rabbi of Young Israel of Scarsdale, or is it the same person?
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